# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 289
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5767 "2024-02-28T14:05:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I couldn’t help but notice the similarity in phrasing: > > '… the most winning woman I ever knew was hanged for poisoning three little children for their insurance-money" > > “she is one of the most charming young ladies I ever met” > > He uses the latter phrase while condemning Watson for taking up with her. Is he implying that Miss Morstan, being even a charming woman, might have something in common with that winning female poisoner? Or is this just Holmes’ own distrust of women? Holmes pastiches sometimes have him hooking up with Irene Adler and even having a child with her, but in the Canon, although she is to him “THE Woman”, she’s still a thief and a scoundrel. I took it to mean the murderess was interesting (winning in keeping his interest), **because** she murdered her three children for their insurance money. To someone like Holmes, she must have been fascinating. Mary Morstan was charming and intelligent, but not fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5768 "2024-02-28T14:39:19Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I took it to mean the murderess was interesting (winning in keeping his interest), **because** she murdered her three children for their insurance money. He never says that. I took it to mean that she was, in other ways, a winning woman with exceptional other qualities, despite her also being a murderess. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5769 "2024-02-28T16:04:46Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Is he implying that Miss Morstan, being even a charming woman, might have something in common with that winning female poisoner? I don’t think so. To think that because you found someone pleasant and engaging, they were in other ways like other people you found pleasant and engaging would be allowing personal qualities to affect your judgement. Holmes notes Mary’s charming manner, but doesn’t allow them to factor into his overall view of her one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5770 "2024-02-28T16:25:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was watching **Young Frankenstein** yesterday and noticed something that I never saw before. > It’s the scene where they’re trying t re-caprure the Monster. Gene Wilder is dressed as a villager, with hat and fake beard, and he’s playing the Monster’s Theme on the violin. The Monster drifts towards him, lulled by the meoldy. When he’s in position, Wilder as Frankenstein yells “Now!” and a net drops over him. Wilder/Frankenstein and Feldman/Eye-gor wrestle him to the ground, as Terry Garr/Inga comes up with a massive hypodermic. She sticks it in, apparently sedating the Monster. > I noticed, though, that she doesn’t push the plunger while the hypodermic is in. After she pulls it out, however, she does depress it, and you can see the liquid gush uselessly out. It’s pretty obvious once you know it’s there. So evidently there was nothing to sedate the Monster. > I’m sure it wasn’t intentional. It was probably the best overall take they had, and they figured nobody would notice it (I find it hard to believe that Mel Brooks missed it – when you’'re filming things you tend to notice details like that). They were right, too, up to a point It only took me a zillion viewings to pick this one up Or maybe it was a parody of the “money shot” in porn films? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5771 "2024-02-28T19:11:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was watching **Young Frankenstein** yesterday and noticed something that I never saw before…I noticed, though, that she doesn’t push the plunger while the hypodermic is in. After she pulls it out, however, she does depress it, and you can see the liquid gush uselessly out. It’s pretty obvious once you know it’s there. So evidently there was nothing to sedate the Monster. > I’m sure it wasn’t intentional. It was probably the best overall take they had, and they figured nobody would notice it (I find it hard to believe that Mel Brooks missed it – when you’'re filming things you tend to notice details like that). They were right, too, up to a point It only took me a zillion viewings to pick this one up Because of this here Message Board, after dozens of times watching YF, I only recently noticed “The Candles” weren’t lit. And now I have to watch again to see this detail. Thank you! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5772 "2024-02-28T20:53:44Z")
I figure the hypodermic thing could easily be the same sort of easter-eggy gag as the unlit candles: the kind of thing that was deliberately put in to make you go “Hey, wait a minute…” _if_ you happen to notice it. Anybody know whether Mel or anyone else involved in the movie has ever addressed this about the hypodermic? (I searched my Kindle version of Brooks’s book about the making of the movie, and he doesn’t mention it there.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5773 "2024-02-28T23:32:11Z")
Inspired by the recent sad news re: Richard Lewis: In an early _Curb Your Enthusiasm_ episode, Larry inadvertently offends Richard’s dermatologist Dr. Grambs (who is Black) with a tasteless joke: “He’s your dermatologist? Even with the whole affirmative action thing?” At first, this made no sense to me: if Larry was implying that Dr. Grambs only got the job because of his race, shouldn’t he have said “because of” instead of “even with”? Later, I realized that Larry wasn’t implying that at all: he was joking that affirmative action should have qualified Dr. Grambs to practice in a more respected field of medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5774 "2024-02-29T00:20:27Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I couldn’t help but notice the similarity in phrasing: > > '… the most winning woman I ever knew was hanged for poisoning three little children for their insurance-money" > > “she is one of the most charming young ladies I ever met” > > He uses the latter phrase while condemning Watson for taking up with her. Is he implying that Miss Morstan, being even a charming woman, might have something in common with that winning female poisoner? Or is this just Holmes’ own distrust of women? I think you are reading too much into it. It’s the type of formal phrasing a Victorian gentleman would use. In fact, Holmes’ lament against Watson’s announcement seems to be more that Watson will stop participating instead of having his new bride start helping. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I took it to mean the murderess was interesting (winning in keeping his interest), **because** she murdered her three children for their insurance money. To someone like Holmes, she must have been fascinating. No. Holmes is describing contrast. She is otherwise a pleasant, charming woman except she’s a murderess of children. Same thing the unpleasant gentleman is a philanthropist. He’s not discussing any personal interest in the woman, especially for her criminality. He’s not discussing finding her fascinating. He’s noting that a personality does not necessarily reflect the totality of the person. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5775 "2024-02-29T01:49:11Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Because of this here Message Board, after dozens of times watching YF, I only recently noticed “The Candles” weren’t lit. Which candles, the ones that open the bookcase? Is there some signifigance that they’re not lit? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5776 "2024-02-29T12:12:56Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/nx8LjVmoSZk/maxresdefault.jpg "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN "Frau Blücher" Clip (1974)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx8LjVmoSZk&t=138) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5777 "2024-02-29T12:57:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Which candles, the ones that open the bookcase? Is there some signifigance that they’re not lit? No – the candles in the candelabra Frau Blucher is carrying as she conducts them up the stairs. Those candles _should_ be lit, if she’s holding them to light their way. Only they aren’t. I noticed this after a couple of viewings of the film, and found the fact that they did this – and that no one comments on it – a hilarious but subtle joke, ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5778 "2024-02-29T13:12:04Z")
I think I’ve only seen Young Frankenstein once or twice and it’s been _at least_ 20 years since I saw it, but I don’t think I knew Frau Blucher was Cloris Leachman until she said ‘would you care for a brandy’ and the voice clicked with my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5779 "2024-02-29T13:53:12Z")
Frau Blucher does tell them to stay close to the light because the stairs are treacherous. But no one is brave enough to tell the scary woman that the candles are not lit. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5780 "2024-02-29T14:53:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Frau Blucher > [@Joey\_P](#): > > Frau Blucher > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Frau Blucher [horses whinnying] ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5781 "2024-02-29T14:58:02Z")
Blucher! [![](https://cdn.printerval.com/unsafe/960x960/assets.printerval.com/2023/05/18/646653e210ff79.71954993.jpg) ](https://cdn.printerval.com/unsafe/960x960/assets.printerval.com/2023/05/18/646653e210ff79.71954993.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5782 "2024-02-29T22:42:38Z")
Man, I have to see that movie again, one of these times. ---
**Author:** ![SlipperyPete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@SlipperyPete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlipperyPete)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5783 "2024-02-29T23:04:23Z")
Huh? No I think you’ve still missed the joke. Larry is (jokingly) implying that because of affirmative action, a black doctor could be less skilled & smart and still graduate from Med school. So he’s feigning surprise that Richard would choose a black doctor. It’s a pretty nasty joke, and it makes sense why everyone who hears about it gets offended. But Larry was saying it as a parody of a racist, he didn’t really mean it. Walking a very fine line there, and it only works with people who know you well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2024, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5784 "2024-03-06T04:39:30Z")
I was in a conversation about movies we remembered watching as kids and [_The Boatniks_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLTcj-_WgMU) was mentioned. And for the first time I realized the title was a pun on beatniks. Which was already a dated reference back in 1970 when the movie was released. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5785 "2024-03-15T12:11:08Z")
Ivan Reitman’s daughter in 1989: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vity0cqWVEc/maxresdefault.jpg "Ghostbusters 2 (1989)- Egon and the Puppy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vity0cqWVEc) . and [Ivan Reitman’s daughter in 2016](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsK6Lqc6u30) Spoiler if you don’t want the surprise, she’s Maureen Ponderosa in It’s Always Sunny. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2024, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/5786 "2024-03-15T13:13:03Z")
Bugs Bunny cartoon [What’s up, Doc (1950)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_Up,_Doc%3F_(1950_film)) There are several scenes where it shows Bugs early in his career as part of a chorus. Bugs is happily singing along. At the end of the cartoon, where he is appearing in his life story, it shows him in the chorus scene again–although, this time he has a decidedly POed look on his face, as if to say, “I’m back to doing this $hi+ again!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=288) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=290)