# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/561 "2009-12-09T15:16:15Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > I’m pretty sure it’s a coincidence. Early scripts had a completely different character named Darth Vader who was relatively minor. Lucas just liked to reuse names and it became the primary villain’s name. “Vader” think _In_Vader. Just like _In_Sidious. And InMaul and InTyranus? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/562 "2009-12-09T15:38:16Z")
About a week or two ago when I was watching “Glee”, I suddenly realized that the hand gesture they use for the “L” in the logo (index finger up, thumb out) is the same gesture used to indicate “Loser”, which is what everyone in the Glee Club is considered by the rest of the school. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/563 "2009-12-09T16:17:06Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Unbelievably late in life, I realized that “Twinkle, twinkle…” and “ABC…” had the same melody. I think a comedian brought this to light for me. I had just never really thought about it. Dumb ass! Wow…you’re right! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/564 "2009-12-09T16:43:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Wow…you’re right! No, they are similar, but not the same. The lengths of the lines are different. Baa Baa Black Sheep is another similar one, but different from either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/565 "2009-12-10T00:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I couldn’t tell you how many times I watched Ghostbusters before I figured out Louis and Dana had to have sex to open the portal. > > Keymaster = penis, Gatekeeper = vagina. The first time I saw _Ghostbusters_, as a kid, I didn’t pick up on that either, but once I watched it as an adult, it became very easy for my mind to draw connections between Sigourney Weaver and sex. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/566 "2009-12-10T00:12:32Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, they are similar, but not the same. The lengths of the lines are different. Baa Baa Black Sheep is another similar one, but different from either. The melody _itself_ is the same. They are all based upon the melody of the French song “_Ah! vous dirai-je, Maman_”. Mozart even did his own take on the melody (but didn’t write it, as is usually thought). ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/567 "2009-12-10T00:50:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, they are similar, but not the same. The lengths of the lines are different. Baa Baa Black Sheep is another similar one, but different from either. The number of syllables per line/measure is different, but the length of each measure is the same and each line uses 2 measures. A group could sing all of them at the same time and they’d all be singing the pitch at all times and they’d stay in sync. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/568 "2009-12-10T01:30:30Z")
Sorry, I don’t speak music. I have no idea what a measure is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/569 "2009-12-10T06:05:42Z")
Measures marked by brackets: [Twinkle, Twinkle] [Little Star] [How I wonder] [what you are] [Bah Bah black sheep] [Have you any wool?] [Yes, sir, yes, sir] [Three bags full] [ABCD] [EFG] [HIJK] [LMNOP] ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/570 "2009-12-10T09:45:59Z")
[What you are] and [LMNOP] sound like different tunes to me. I’m not sure how they are the same. But if people who read music tell me they are the same, I’ll just have to take their word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/571 "2009-12-10T09:53:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [What you are] and [LMNOP] sound like different tunes to me. I’m not sure how they are the same. But if people who read music tell me they are the same, I’ll just have to take their word for it. [whatchyoo are] [ellemenoh pee] Just singing them out loud, they sound the same to me – I think you’re conflating the tune with the lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/572 "2009-12-10T16:29:55Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > About a week or two ago when I was watching “Glee”, I suddenly realized that the hand gesture they use for the “L” in the logo (index finger up, thumb out) is the same gesture used to indicate “Loser”, which is what everyone in the Glee Club is considered by the rest of the school. I first noticed this last night! –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/573 "2009-12-10T16:54:02Z")
“Frigidaire” I always thought it was a cool-sounding name (:dubious: pun not intended). Yesterday it hit me as I was opening mine up for a snack… _Wow, that’s really frigid air…_ :smack: That’s what a refrigerator does - blows frigid air inside to keep things cool/frozen. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/574 "2009-12-10T16:55:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Measures marked by brackets: > > [Twinkle, Twinkle] [Little Star] [How I wonder] [what you are] > [Bah Bah black sheep] [Have you any wool?] [Yes, sir, yes, sir] [Three bags full] > [ABCD] [EFG] [HIJK] [LMNOP] The melody for Bah bah Black Sheep (at least in the 60s) is WAYYY different than Twinkle, Twinkle / ABCs ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/575 "2009-12-10T17:41:19Z")
In Trevanian’s novel The Eiger Sanction, I got that some of the names were jokes. But it wasn’t until the third or fourth read that I caught the fact that Mr. Dragon’s first name is Yurasis. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/576 "2009-12-10T21:08:03Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [What you are] and [LMNOP] sound like different tunes to me. I’m not sure how they are the same. But if people who read music tell me they are the same, I’ll just have to take their word for it. How about some audio help? (MP3 format, using a different instrument for each song) [Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star](http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/_twinkle.mp3) [ABC](http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/_abc.mp3) [Baa Baa Black Sheep](http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/_sheep.mp3) [All together now](http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/_all.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/577 "2009-12-10T21:42:40Z")
I don’t think I noticed this one until the last time I watched _The Sopranos_ through, but in season 3, Tony and Ralphie come to blows over a girl Ralphie killed. Before the girl gets killed, Tony and Silvio are talking about her, and Silvio calls her a “thoroughbred.” In season 4, Tony and Ralphie come to blows (for the last time, if you follow my meaning) over a racehorse Ralphie killed. In retrospect, it seems obvious to me that they had Ralphie’s end all planned out _way_ in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/578 "2009-12-13T18:26:35Z")
I have heard and sung the “Jingle Bells, Batman smells” parody about a million times, including Robert Goulet on The Simpsons. I sang it for a five year old at a tree trimming party yesterday, who informed me that “Robin lays an egg” makes sense because “robins are birds and birds lay eggs.” That thought had never occured to me. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/579 "2009-12-13T19:06:57Z")
The other day a radio station played Dream On by Aerosmith. I didn’t realize it was Aerosmith until after the intro. Until then, I had though it was Don’t Speak by No Doubt. They sound very similar to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/580 "2009-12-13T19:51:32Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I have heard and sung the “Jingle Bells, Batman smells” parody about a million times, including Robert Goulet on The Simpsons. > > I sang it for a five year old at a tree trimming party yesterday, who informed me that “Robin lays an egg” makes sense because “robins are birds and birds lay eggs.” > > That thought had never occured to me. :smack: I never thought of that either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=30)