# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 301
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6007 "2024-10-13T21:09:58Z")
Which was based on a Canadian TV play! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6008 "2024-10-17T20:34:32Z")
I’m not sure if this was obvious to everyone else or not. I’ve heard the song _Our House_ by Madness a bazillion times and I always heard ‘sister sewing in her sleep,’ which is much more evocative (to me) than ‘sighing in her sleep.’ ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6009 "2024-10-17T22:59:00Z")
Meyer Landsman, the Philip Marlowe-esque protagonist of _The Yiddish Policeman’s Union_, has a rough phonetic approximation of “Marlowe” hidden in his name. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6010 "2024-10-21T02:27:46Z")
I’m an IDIOT. I always thought Vader got to Cloud City first by divining it with his “Sorcerer Ways” Completely forgetting Boba Fett following the Falcon. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6011 "2024-10-25T00:25:38Z")
This is a coincidence, not a deliberate shout-out, but I just noticed it, so I’ll share it. In the movie **Stand By Me** , before Gordie, Wil Wheaton’s character, tells the pie-contest story, there’s a montage of the boys free-associating. Cherry-flavored Pez, if Pluto’s a dog then what the heck is Goofy\*, and then Gordie says, “_Wagon Train_’s a pretty cool show. But did you ever notice they never _get_ anywhere? They just keep wagon training.” A year later, Wil Wheaton would be cast in _Star Trek: the Next Generation_. The original Trek was pitched by Gene Roddenberry to NBC as _Wagon Train_ To the Stars. \*I honestly thought Goofy was a horse. Doesn’t he kind of look like one? But the official word from Disney is that Goofy is a “dawg”; a cartoon dog, humanized the way Mickey and Donald are. Pluto is more like what today we call a(n) NPC. He’s not a character: he’s Mickey’s pet, and he doesn’t speak (that I recall?) Mice don’t look like Mickey, after all, and Goofy is in the same class as Mickey, so he’s a “dawg” while Pluto is a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6012 "2024-10-25T01:01:08Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Pluto is more like what today we call a(n) NPC. Sorry, my inner nerd demands I “Um, actually…” this. NPC stands for “Non-Player Character,” and wouldn’t really apply to any character in most traditional narrative media. The term originates from Dungeons and Dragons, where it referred to any character in the story controlled by the Dungeon Master, as opposed to one of the characters controlled by a player. It got ported over to video games in largely the same sense - a video game NPC is any character controlled by the computer. It doesn’t reflect the character’s importance to the story, except that NPCs are almost definitionally not _protagonists_, because that’s what the player is there for. Pluto himself was the protagonist in nearly fifty Disney shorts from the '30s through the '50s, in addition to dozens of appearances as a supporting character in Mickey Mouse cartoons. I believe he was also a non-controllable character in some of the _Kingdom Hearts_ video games, which would indeed make him an NPC. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6013 "2024-10-25T01:04:57Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > \*I honestly thought Goofy was a horse. Doesn’t he kind of look like one? That would be Horace Horsecollar. > **[Horace Horsecollar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Horsecollar)** > > Horace Horsecollar is a cartoon character created in 1929 at Walt Disney Animation Studios. Horace is a tall anthropomorphic black horse and is one of Mickey Mouse's best friends. Characterized as a boastful show-off, Horace served as Mickey’s sidekick in Disney's early black-and-white shorts. > Horace first appeared as Mickey's plow horse in the 1929 cartoon The Plowboy. Later that same year, he appeared in The Jazz Fool and afterwards became a regular member of the Disney supporting cast along w... > [@Miller](#): > > Pluto himself was the protagonist in nearly fifty Disney shorts from the '30s through the '50s, Yep, Pluto has been the star in quite a few shorts. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6014 "2024-10-25T01:12:50Z")
I’m assuming that no one wants to rehash the old\* theory: “If Minnie and Pluto had a love child, wouldn’t it look a lot like Goofy?”… . \*developed during the middle of _Stand By Me._ (by me, but I’m willing to share authorship of the article in a prestigious scientific journal, with anyone here who’ll admit to having the same thought…) ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6015 "2024-10-25T01:19:09Z")
The Disney characters are fictional (you’d be surprised that needs to be foundational). They live in a fictional world where they take the form of anthropomorphized animals. They aren’t really mice or ducks or dogs, but are functionally humans. Pluto is a dog in that he functions as a pet. Just like Hello Kitty is not a cat, but is a little girl anthropomorphized in the form of a cat and has a pet who functions as a cat. The mind blower is that she’s not even Japanese, but is British. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6016 "2024-10-25T01:24:48Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > They live in a fictional world where they take the form of anthropomorphized animals. Sooooo…They’re all furries? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6017 "2024-10-25T01:27:16Z")
The one that gets me: Gadget Hackwrench, a mouse, is about the same size as Chip and Dale. Chip and Dale have also appeared together with Donald, who’s about eight times their height. Donald is about the same height as Mickey, a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6018 "2024-10-25T01:32:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Sooooo…They’re all furries? Furries would be the fandom. Just like LARPers to whatever world they are celebrating. They are “meta”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6019 "2024-10-25T01:34:45Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > But the official word from Disney is that Goofy is a “dawg”; a cartoon dog, humanized the way Mickey and Donald are. If a humanized dog is a “dawg”, wouldn’t Mickey and Donald, as humanized animals, be a “mowse” and a “duk”, respectively? ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6020 "2024-10-25T02:01:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If a humanized dog is a “dawg”, wouldn’t Mickey and Donald, as humanized animals, be a “mowse” and a “duk”, respectively? Perhaps if they had to differentiate between Mickey and vermin or if they had Donald feeding bread to ducks. I don’t recall the same situation as Pluto with the other residents. Ducks have a special status thanks to Carl Banks so I doubt they would need to. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6021 "2024-10-25T02:15:18Z")
Blows my mind: Animals having other animals as pets. A mouse “owning” a dog! A “kitty” owning a cat… I can’t think of that showing up anywhere else… Zootopia? Mighty Mouse? Rescue Rangers? Duck Tales? Tangent: That reminds me once again of the time someone in a meeting ended with “Well, that’s interesting. Might solve a mystery…” Me: “Or rewrite history.” _“Duck Tales, a-woo-hoo…”_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6022 "2024-10-25T02:22:58Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Blows my mind: Animals having other animals as pets. A mouse “owning” a dog! A “kitty” owning a cat… I can’t think of that showing up anywhere else… Zootopia? Mighty Mouse? Rescue Rangers? Duck Tales? Ross from _Friends_ had a pet monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6023 "2024-10-25T02:24:38Z")
As I pointed out (somewhere), there are the Carl Banks ducks who look like they’re about three feet tall– Donald, Uncle Scrooge, etc., and then there are more generalized “humanoids with bills” who are further up the anthropomorphization scale. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6024 "2024-10-25T05:16:06Z")
I mean, they’re all obviously various degrees of human-animal hybrids, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6025 "2024-10-25T06:46:06Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Blows my mind: Animals having other animals as pets. A mouse “owning” a dog! A “kitty” owning a cat… I can’t think of that showing up anywhere else… [![](https://i0.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/ribbit.jpg?w=600&ssl=1) ](https://i0.wp.com/www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/ribbit.jpg?w=600&ssl=1) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6026 "2024-10-25T11:46:40Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > \*I honestly thought Goofy was a horse. Doesn’t he kind of look like one? But the official word from Disney is that Goofy is a “dawg”; a cartoon dog, humanized the way Mickey and Donald are. Pluto is more like what today we call a(n) NPC. He’s not a character: he’s Mickey’s pet, and he doesn’t speak (that I recall?) Mice don’t look like Mickey, after all, and Goofy is in the same class as Mickey, so he’s a “dawg” while Pluto is a dog. Goofy started out as a character named “Dippy Dawg”, which would seem to cement his identity as canine. At the same time, Warner Brothers cartoons had a character named “Goopy Geer”, who was also a dog. Goopy and Dippy looked suspiciously similar > **[Goopy Geer](https://looneytunes.fandom.com/wiki/Goopy_Geer)** > > Goopy Geer is an animated cartoon character in the Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies series of cartoons from Warner Bros. The character is a tall, lanky humanoid dog with scruffy whiskers and long, expressive ears. In all of his animated appearances,... > **[Goofy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofy#/media/File:Goofy_Debut.PNG)** > > Goofy is a cartoon character created by the Walt Disney Company. He is a tall, anthropomorphic dog who typically wears a turtle neck and vest, with pants, shoes, white gloves, and a tall hat originally designed as a rumpled fedora. Goofy is a close friend of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, and is Max Goof's father. He is normally characterized as hopelessly clumsy and dim-witted, yet this interpretation is not always definitive; occasionally, Goofy is shown as intuitive and clever, albeit in his... It’s also suspicious that “Dippy” morphed into “Goofy”, which differs by only one letter from “Goopy”. For some reason, Goopy faded from the Warners lineup in 1933. If you look at early black and white cartoons you see plenty of similarities, and not a lot of variation. Being stuck in black and white mode, without evebn shades of gray to modulate things, seemed to limit creativity in his regard. “Foxy” from arner Brothers looks so much like Mickey Mouse that I thought they were the same character as a kid. I saw one cartoon from the 1920s where I swear every character looked like Mickey Mouse, as he was drawn then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=300) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=302)