# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 315
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6287 "2025-04-06T18:25:36Z")
And of course Foglio’s “Buck Godot: Zap Gun for Hire” series. Mercenary antiheroes in space are far from rare but I think the series was largely made by the setting: the planet New Hong Kong, which due to a hack of the AI drones policing most of known space had only one law– “There shall be no laws on New Hong Kong”. Thus you had an anarchist hive with a unique set of social customs. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6288 "2025-04-06T22:35:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, the Devil… cheated? This upends my entire worldview! I’ve never liked that song (The Devil went down to Georgia), because it is not consistent with Christian theology, or the whole Western European literary tradition. For how it should have worked out, see [The Devil and Dan Webster](https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/benetsv-thirteen08-devilanddanielwebster/benetsv-thirteen08-devilanddanielwebster-00-h-dir/benetsv-thirteen08-devilanddanielwebster-00-h.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6289 "2025-04-06T22:54:06Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I’ve never liked that song (The Devil went down to Georgia), because it is not consistent with Christian theology, or the whole Western European literary tradition It’s more of a fae story, if you think about it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6290 "2025-04-07T12:24:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Phil Foglio, the illustrator of the Girl Genius webcomic is _also_ the guy who did the covers and illustrations for the Myth Adventures series. Something I only just discovered looking him up on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Foglio) for other reasons, but should have realized long ago because his style is pretty distinctive and I’m a fan of both. I never had such a jolt. I’ve been following Foglio’s stuff since URCON II back in 1981, and read his three-page comic _Winslow_, which blew me away [![](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/UR3guide.jpg) ](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/UR3guide.jpg) [![](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow1.jpg) ](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow1.jpg) [![](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow2.jpg) ](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow2.jpg) [![](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow3.jpg) ](https://www.rochesterfantasyfans.org/goodies/winslow3.jpg) Since then I’ve noticed how he’s slipped Winslow into a lot of his other works, including Buck Godot and Girl Genius. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6291 "2025-04-07T21:31:35Z")
I’m pretty sure that Winslow has the same origin as Tom Bombadil. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6292 "2025-04-08T02:58:10Z")
After watching clips of _Inglourious Basterds_ I became curious about the gaudy gold medal that Hans Landa wears. Turns out it’s the Knights Cross of the War Merit Cross in Gold with Swords. That award was created in 1944 and never awarded to anyone. Having Landa be the recipient of an award that was never awarded in real life is a clever piece of background that shows we are watching a alternate history. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6293 "2025-04-08T09:25:29Z")
I figured it was structured to vibe with biblical text, so that “Rose Mary’s Baby” would be using ‘rose’ to mean ‘arose’, as in he rose up from Hell, or as a conqueror. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6294 "2025-04-08T09:32:23Z")
I remember thinking as a kid, “Johnny is so silly. He thinks he won, but he is all Pride and the devil will get him in the end”. Until now, I honestly thought that was the point of the song - that the devil won regardless. I had zero clue that the performance was technically better for Johnny’s part! (Even so, though, I think young me had it right. The devil baited Johnny into succumbing to Pride, and after winning that fiddle he’d have been all the way corrupted by that Pride.) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6295 "2025-04-10T19:02:12Z")
> [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](#): > > (Even so, though, I think young me had it right. The devil baited Johnny into succumbing to Pride, and after winning that fiddle he’d have been all the way corrupted by that Pride.) That actually makes sense. I never could understand how they could have a fiddle contest, or any subjective contest, without an independent judge. It just works out like kids playing army (back in the days we didn’t have nerf guns and just pointed sticks/ our fingers at each other) where both claim _they_ shot first. "I WIN! " "NO, _I_ WIN! ") Whereas the Devil conceding now makes sense. It was _never_ a fiddle contest, it was a trick to sucker Johnny by pride. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6296 "2025-04-10T22:43:26Z")
Yeah, I’ve always figured that theologically, the contest or contract or wishes or whatever should be meaningless. Merely agreeing to participate knowing who you are dealing with will damn you all on it’s own. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6297 "2025-04-10T23:08:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Phil Foglio, the illustrator of the Girl Genius… Phil who? (Foglio not only did some illustrations for the novels, he did a full comic adaptation of the first book. It’s one of the few instances where an adaptation is significantly better than the original. As Easter Eggs for fans of his other works, he slipped in cameos from a New Hong Kong police drone, and Winslow the eternal salamander.) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6298 "2025-04-11T12:45:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Since then I’ve noticed how he’s slipped Winslow into a lot of his other works, including Buck Godot and Girl Genius. [Yup](https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20141205). [And Buck Godot in Girl Genius](https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070319). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6299 "2025-04-14T14:36:49Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > After watching _Christmas Story_ I found one of Jean Shepherd’s short story collections. His story about his expierience as a Mess Hall server was hilarious. (Two and a half years later) I recall reading a memoir decades ago on that. One phrase I remember was the story teller looking at the pristine mess hall just before the doors were opened, “with the same sad look a farmer gives his virgin daughter as the Vikings stride into view.” I wonder if that was him. ---
**Author:** ![f.coli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@f.coli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/f.coli)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6300 "2025-04-16T15:06:42Z")
Does “Green-eyed Lady” also have a hidden meaning? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6301 "2025-04-16T15:39:20Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That actually makes sense. I never could understand how they could have a fiddle contest, or any subjective contest, without an independent judge. It just works out like kids playing army (back in the days we didn’t have nerf guns and just pointed sticks/ our fingers at each other) where both claim _they_ shot first. "I WIN! " "NO, _I_ WIN! ") > > Whereas the Devil conceding now makes sense. It was _never_ a fiddle contest, it was a trick to sucker Johnny by pride. I’ve heard this argument and it does have some appeal. But I figure you can just as easily make the counter-argument; what Johnny was doing was standing up to a challenge from the Devil and defeating him. Admittedly, this point would have been clearer if Johnny had defeated the Devil and then turned down the golden fiddle, thereby proving he had no secular motive. But I guess we can say that having won the spiritual battle, Johnny was receiving an earthly reward as well. A touch of prosperity gospel as it were. As for the terms of the contest, I feel that as in any “deal with the devil” story there’s an unseen judge watching over events and enforcing the rules; God. The Devil has to follow the rules. If he breaks the rules, he doesn’t get the soul in question. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6302 "2025-04-16T17:24:52Z")
> [@f.coli](#): > > Does “Green-eyed Lady” also have a hidden meaning? He was totally wrong, in case you havent guessed. One possible hidden meaning of “Green-Eyed lady” is that she is a sort of sea or nature spirit- maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6303 "2025-05-02T23:51:43Z")
I was just watching the “Tubthumping” video and for the first time I noticed the band’s name was spelled Chumbawamba. I always thought it was Chumbawumba. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2025, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6304 "2025-05-14T05:28:27Z")
In Elizabeth Moon’s Paksennarion series, the setting’s version of “dark elves” are called Iynisin or kuaknom and aren’t just “evil elves”. They revolted against their nature and became inverted perversions of true elves, to such an extreme they have poisonous, corrosive blood. I didn’t notice when I originally read it, but the narrative subtly reinforces how alienated they are from normal elves (and life in general) by never assigning them a gender. They are always referred to and thought of as “it”, which normal elves are _not._ Even people friendly to elves and have literally met an Iynisin for the very first time call them an “it”. What made it subtle is that it was never called out or even noticed by the characters, which it why I didn’t notice it either. Nobody ever _said_ “you call the Iynisin ‘it’” or made a conscious decision to do so; everyone just _did,_ unthinkingly and automatically. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6305 "2025-05-25T01:25:02Z")
While posting to another thread, I ran across an video I uploaded to youtube 15 years ago. It’s probably not obvious to a lot of people, but at the time I had been watching _a lot_ of old movies so I noticed this one right away. I’m still surprised I managed to sync up and film both a laptop (on my lap) and the TiVo. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gnBM1EPe8S4/hqdefault.jpg "video-2010-05-02-21-26-52") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnBM1EPe8S4) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6306 "2025-05-25T16:20:07Z")
OK, for those of us not as familiar with old movies, what movie is that? Can’t read the YouTube title. And did either or both have dialog, or was it just the music? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=314) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=316)