# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 318
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6347 "2025-06-13T12:43:29Z")
People in Shanghai still call it Peking. Sort of. It’s the English spelling of the Shanghai pronunciation. Actually, people in Beijing don’t actually call it Beijing either – that’s the Chinese romanisation of the Mandarin pronunciation, but they don’t use American pronunciation or phonetics. Of course, Melbourne isn’t pronounced Melbourne either. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6348 "2025-06-13T13:44:45Z")
Don’t even get me started on Worcestershire. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6349 "2025-06-13T13:52:12Z")
Ohio has a town called Wooster, spelled “Wooster”. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6350 "2025-06-13T14:17:46Z")
Ah - like Bertie (and my Great-great grandmother). ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6351 "2025-06-13T15:54:49Z")
“It was the best of Shires, it was the Worcestershire” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6352 "2025-06-13T16:51:02Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > People in Shanghai still call it Peking. Sort of. It’s the English spelling of the Shanghai pronunciation. Actually, people in Beijing don’t actually call it Beijing either – that’s the Chinese romanisation of the Mandarin pronunciation, but they don’t use American pronunciation or phonetics. Mao’s name was variously romanized as Tse-Tung and Zedong, with the actual accent approximately between those two spellings. And don’t get me started on the Arabic غ (ghayn). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6353 "2025-06-13T19:11:55Z")
Locially, there’s Valatie. Nobody outside the area gets that one right. It’s pronounced as though the “e” is an “a”: Vuh-LAY-shuh ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6354 "2025-06-16T14:13:02Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > “It was the best of Shires, it was the Worcestershire” A better version is the one told by Richard Osman: > [@](#): > > Dicken’s ‘A Tale Of Two Cities’ was first serialised in two local newspapers. > > It was the Bicester Times, it was The Worcester Times. Pronounced “bister” and “wooster”, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6355 "2025-06-16T16:09:11Z")
This is a pretty silly one, and I don’t know if commercials count as creative works, but there’s a commercial for Otezla (that treats plaque psoriasis) about a first date at a movie theater. I’ve seen it dozens of times for sure, but last night I spotted that the movie theater is called The Otezla. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6356 "2025-06-24T15:16:28Z")
The “[Dr. Zaius](https://youtu.be/JlmzUEQxOvA?si=0nyR6nTW5gSV3q5-&t=23)” song from The Simpson’s Planet of the Apes musical just started running through my head for no reason and I just realized it’s the same tune as Falco’s “Rock Me Amadeus.” ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6357 "2025-06-24T15:43:58Z")
In Macbeth’s “sound and fury” speech, there’s a stealth “today” bridging the gap between future and past: > **Tomorrow** , and **tomorrow** , and **tomorrow** , > Creeps in this petty pace from day **to day** , > To the last syllable of recorded time; > And all our **yesterdays** have lighted fools > The way to dusty death…. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6358 "2025-06-24T21:02:06Z")
A much-borrowed passage in sf world. M. Barnard Eldershaw wrote a novel called _Tomorrow and Tomorrow_ in 1947 but its modern reprints revised that to _Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow_. Similarly, Kurt Vonnegut’s short story “A Big Trip Up Yonder” was retitled “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” in his collection _Welcome to the Monkey House_. Many authors have used “Tomorrow and Tomorrow” as titles for various lengths of fiction. “This Petty Pace” has been used for short stories by Jason K. Chapman and Brian A. Dixon. _The Last Act of Recorded Time_ was a variant used for a novel by James Cooper. _All Our Yesterdays_ is the title of a seminal history of sf fandom by Harry Warner Jr. and at least a half dozen short stories and novels. “Dusty Death” is the title of four short stories. Is there any other five-line passage even in Shakespeare that has had each line mined for titles? Or so many? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6359 "2025-06-24T21:26:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Is there any other five-line passage even in Shakespeare that has had each line mined for titles? Or so many? Lines 3-6 of Yeats’ “The Second Coming” have to be up there: > Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; > Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, > The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere > The ceremony of innocence is drowned… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6360 "2025-06-24T21:48:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Is there any other five-line passage even in Shakespeare that has had each line mined for titles? Or so many? Interesting challenge. Here’s four lines from William Blake: _Tyger Tyger, burning bright,_ _In the forests of the night;_ _What immortal hand or eye,_ _Could frame thy fearful symmetry?_ “Tyger Tyger” - 2019 movie (and a Tiger Woods biography).. “Burning Bright” - 2010 movie. “The Forests of the Night” - 4 novels and a very bad Doctor Who episode. “What Immortal Hand” - novel. “Fearful Symmetry (or Symmetries)” - a bunch of books. You got more SF, though. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6361 "2025-06-24T22:05:16Z")
All Our Yesterdays is also the title of a ST:TOS episode. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6362 "2025-06-24T23:20:49Z")
Shakespeare wrote around 36 plays. It’s more impressive that Andrew Marvell had one poem – “To His Coy Mistress” – that was used for many other titles. “World Enough and Time” has been used many times, “Vaster than Empires and More Slow” was an Ursula K. Leguin story, “A Fine and Private Place” is a novel by Peter S. Beagle. Here’s a listing: [To His Coy Mistress - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_His_Coy_Mistress#Allusions_in_other_works) Note that the line “And your quaint honour turn to dust” was a rude pun when it was written. Not clear these days, though. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2025, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6363 "2025-06-25T00:30:06Z")
I once borrowed “A Chronicle of Wasted Time” from Shakespeare for a title and got blasted by friends saying the title was all too apt. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2025, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6364 "2025-06-25T02:37:24Z")
Here are many cases where book titles came from phrases in other literature: > **[List of book titles taken from literature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book_titles_taken_from_literature)** > > Many authors will use quotations from literature as the title for their works. This may be done as a conscious allusion to the themes of the older work or simply because the phrase seems memorable. The following is a partial list of book titles taken from literature. It does not include phrases altered for parody. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2025, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6365 "2025-06-25T09:17:12Z")
Interesting list. I’ve read a bunch of McDermid novels and never caught all the T.S. Eliot references. Also, note to self: Don’t title your book _Darkness Visible_. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2025, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6366 "2025-06-25T09:37:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Is there any other five-line passage even in Shakespeare that has had each line mined for titles? There are also numerous works with the title _A tale told by an idiot_ and a notable one named _The Sound and the Fury_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=317) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=319)