# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 326
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6507 "2025-08-02T21:58:43Z")
Of course, it needs to be something that the audience can understand. Most people don’t know the rules of poker. If the showdown is between a straight and trips, most of the audience won’t know who won. But if the showdown is between four aces and four jacks, most of the audience will know who won. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6508 "2025-08-02T22:09:06Z")
Sure, but by the same token, most people would recognize a pair of aces over a pair of jacks, too. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6509 "2025-08-03T01:56:55Z")
Part of the drama is setting up the other person with a seeming winning hand so that will bet big. If they only have a pair of jacks, they won’t be big even if you only have a pair of threes. Full house is a fairly common hand, so you want something that the audience can understand that says “bet big - you will win”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6510 "2025-08-03T02:30:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > This one? Funny scene but it’s not the one I’m remembering. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6511 "2025-08-03T14:35:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I vaguely recall seeing a scene (I think if might have been in Mad magazine) where there was a poker game where everyone was cheating and in the big hand, every player revealed they had a hand of four aces. “What’ve you got?” “Five Aces!” “You can’t – I’ve got them.” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6512 "2025-08-03T15:35:44Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yaz1XvDvxUI/hqdefault.jpg "Bugs Bunny - Cheating at Poker") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaz1XvDvxUI) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6513 "2025-08-08T19:44:52Z")
Okay, I could be wrong about this, but it did just occur to me. In the movie **Fame** , the one about the performing arts school, a music student, Bruno Martelli, has an electric/electronic keyboard player, complex enough for three prog rock bands. One of the throughlines of the story is the constant friction between him and Mr. Shorofsky, the head of the music department, who is very old-school and seems to think that progress ended with “Mozart when he was two!” The last scene of the film is the graduation showcase, where the seniors sing, dance and play instruments. Including a modern-dance number, accompanied by a _rock band_. Zuh? The way Shorofsky was always bitching about Bruno’s keyboards, you’d think he’d never seen an electric instrument before. So how did a rock band sneak in there? Well, it just occurred to me, perhaps the electric guitarists are there _because_ of Bruno. Perhaps he was the trailblazer, and other students started gravitating towards rock/electric music, and it just flowed that way. The dance department doesn’t only do ballet, after all. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6514 "2025-08-08T20:24:05Z")
It’s been a long time since I saw the movie - but I think Shorofsky’s problem was not so much the idea of an electric instrument but the idea of a single person playing a synthesizer replacing an entire orchestra. ( I seem to recall him referring to it as masturbation , not music) That high school certainly had more musical groups than just an orchestra. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6515 "2025-08-08T23:36:52Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I think Shorofsky’s problem was not so much the idea of an electric instrument but the idea of a single person playing a synthesizer replacing an entire orchestra. Well, he’s got a point there – that would put a **lot** of people out of work! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6516 "2025-08-09T00:02:48Z")
In the 1975 movie [_Smile_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073722/reference/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_7_tt_7_nm_1_in_0_q_smile), about a small-town teen beauty contest they have for the first time a small but live orchestra. One of the girls keeps missing her cues until the music director snaps and throws his baton at her. Dodging it she apologizes, “I’m sorry, Mr. [Director]. It’s just live music is so different than recorded.” He collects himself, and takes a deep breath. “Yes, miss. It is that difference on which our livelihood depends.” ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6517 "2025-08-09T16:19:24Z")
I love _Smile._ A very underrated movie. Michael Kidd was wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6518 "2025-08-09T18:00:56Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I love _Smile._ A very underrated movie “Help others.” ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2025, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6519 "2025-08-15T21:17:48Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > In anticipation of getting the Super Deluxe Edition of Deep Purple’s _Made In Japan_, I’ve been listening to the teasers cuts of Steven Wilson’s remix on youtube (here’s [“Highway Star”](https://youtu.be/mzLi-Kfbo8w?feature=shared)) > > Sounds great, but wait a minute…why is Ritchie coming out of the left channel and Jon on the right? That’s opposite of the way they stood on stage from the audience perspective. > > Well, it turns out that’s the way it was on the original album. Never noticed it before now–and it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the album. But I’m wondering how I didn’t notice after almost 50 years of owning the album and looking at the photo on the cover. > [@kwintenstraler](#): > > I’ve been bothered about that for years! For a time I was wondering if they mirrored the photos for artistic reasons or something like that. Same thing happens with the On Stage live album of Rainbow and as I’ve seen them live with Ritchie Blackmore on the right of the stage I know it’s not that they’ve mirrored the photos on the cover. For me, it’s still a distraction. > Once I was at a classical concert, and we got to sit behind the orchestra. Therefore, the violins were for me on the right side etc. I could not enjoy that concert at all, I kept thinking this sound image is wrong, wrong, wrong! Update for anyone interested: The booklet included in the box set has an interview with Steve Wilson who remixed the album: _Q: Looking at the credits, the original album was mixed by Roger Glover and Ian Paice. It would appear that the original mix reflects how those two musicians would have heard the rest of the band whilst performing._ _A: Yes, Ritchie Blackmore is on the left [in the mix] and Jon Lord is on the right, which is kind of the opposite to the way that they’d be from the audience’s perspective on stage, but how Ian Paice would have heard them._ ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6520 "2025-08-15T21:49:10Z")
I was just going to say “Well, you get to pretend you’re in the band!” ---
**Author:** ![kwintenstraler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kwintenstraler/32/10698_2.png) [@kwintenstraler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwintenstraler)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6521 "2025-08-16T08:02:08Z")
Thanks for the information. Interesting to know. I’m still puzzled why Rainbow’s live album On stage has the same stereomix with Blackmore on the left. This was produced by Martin Birch (not a band member). But thanks for the info. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6522 "2025-08-16T14:52:41Z")
“Beat” + “beetles” = Beatles. Clever, right? So “monkey” + “keys” = Monkees? I think someone did not quite get it. What is a kee, anyway? Byrds (WTF???) The Scorpions, etc.— that is fine, that is just an animal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6523 "2025-08-16T14:59:16Z")
I think it’s just “The Beatles misspelled their animal, so we’ll misspell our animal, too.”. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6524 "2025-08-16T15:03:06Z")
It’s also wordplay on their most famous song, “Tern! Tern! Tern!” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6525 "2025-08-16T15:14:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So who would name their daughter Marcia if their last name is Martin? Marcia Martin? I had a classmate in elementary school whose name was Penny Nichols. Never underestimate the capacity for parents to give unfortunate names to their kids. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6526 "2025-08-16T16:12:06Z")
Remember that the Monkees didn’t begin as a group of musicians who met one day and decided to see what they would sound like as a band. It began as a television show created by Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider who had just seen _A Hard Day’s Night_ and decided to make a television show about a band. The name they first came up with was _The Monkeys_, apparently by thinking that monkeys were cuter animals than beetles. Later they decided that it was necessary to name them something that was not quite an animal name, so they changed the name to _The Monkees_. Rafelson and Schneider then hired lots of writers, directors, songwriters, musicians, and actors for the show. They chose the actors who played the four members of the band because they were good actors and reasonably good singers. They wanted them to be about the right age and to be able to play a variety of character types so that the band had various personality types. At first they didn’t play their instruments, but they learned how to as the show went on. They decided to have the show include various avant garde film techniques in its production. They rented (or maybe bought) a house on the beach of Hollywood, California to pose as the house that the Monkees lived in They then persuaded NBC to run the program and it was a hit for a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=325) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=327)