# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 328
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6547 "2025-08-17T19:12:50Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Mickey Dolenz was an actor who could sing. > > … > > The only one of the four who learned his instrument as the show went on was Mickey. If I recall correctly, Dolenz could play the guitar and that’s what he auditioned on. But he was cast as the group’s drummer so he had to learn how to play the drums. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6548 "2025-08-17T19:27:22Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > And now the number one hit on the Billboard Hot 100 is “Golden,” a song by a fake band from an animated film. “It’s got a good beat, and we can dance to it”. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6549 "2025-08-17T20:58:09Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Peter Tork was also a performing musician (voice, guitar, keyboards) who was recommended for the Monkees by his housemate Steven Stills. Peter Tork and Steven Stills met when they were both living in Greenwich Village. People used to come up to one or the other of them and say “Hey, I know a guy that looks just like you!” So when they actually met, they were both “You must be that guy everyone keeps telling me about.” Stills “auditioned” for the Monkees, but really just wanted them to buy some songs he had written. After they turned him down, he recommended Peter Tork because they were looking for someone with a similar look. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6550 "2025-08-17T23:24:46Z")
Nitpick: Ste **ph** en Stills. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6551 "2025-08-17T23:57:47Z")
Re: Micky Dolenz – he was in a couple of cover bands before auditioning for the Monkees. The most successful (so to speak) was Micky & The 1-Knighters who played gigs in late 1964. Here is the only known band publicity shot: [![](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54727791944_d639946bcd.jpg) ](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54727791944_d639946bcd.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6552 "2025-08-18T04:27:34Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Stills “auditioned” for the Monkees, but really just wanted them to buy some songs he had written. After they turned him down…. Ha! I never knew that, kind of wondered why he didn’t get the gig. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If I recall correctly, Dolenz could play the guitar and that’s what he auditioned on. But he was cast as the group’s drummer so he had to learn how to play the drums. IIRC it was recording _The Girl I Knew Somewhere_ when he finally buckled down and learned drums. Didn’t happen overnight and apparently the final drum track several “best sections” patched together. Worked for me- THIKS was and remains my favorite Monkees track. Peter’s harpsichord backing and solo was nothing to sneeze your nose at either. > [@blondebear](#): > > Re: Micky Dolenz – he was in a couple of cover bands before auditioning for the Monkees. The most successful (so to speak) was Micky & The 1-Knighters who played gigs in late 1964. Here is the only known band publicity shot: Something else I never knew. Cool. As a kid in the 50’s I used to LOVE “Circus Boy” and wanted to be Corky (played by young Mickey); used to imagine myself wearing his hat and boots, riding my elephant up and down our suburban driveway. I feel compelled to point out I was no Monkees fanboy, but enjoyed quite a few of their records. Only watched a couple of episodes and thought Mickey was the best (and funniest) actor of the four. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6553 "2025-08-18T06:13:36Z")
Rewatching _The Good Place_. On S1E12, Janet, Jason and Eleanor are in hiding in the Medium Place. Shawn has ruled that if they don’t turn themselves in, then Tahani and Chidi will be sent to the Bad Place in their stead. With one hour to the deadline, Tahani and Chidi are just standing there, awaiting their doom. Michael enters with some froyo saying that as long as there’s no Janet to fulfill their desires, he’s stepping in. He’s wearing Janet’s outfit of lavender vest, teal green shirt and NECKTIE with lavender accents and lavender slacks (as opposed to Janet’s skirt). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6554 "2025-08-18T16:40:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > f I recall correctly, Dolenz could play the guitar and that’s what he auditioned on. But he was cast as the group’s drummer so he had to learn how to play the drums. Dolenz was also the owner of the **third** Moog synthesizer ever commercially available, and the **first** to use it in a rock recording (“Daily Nightly”, as performed on one of the _Monkees_ episodes). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6555 "2025-08-18T18:45:24Z")
Paul Beaver of Beaver and Krause had the U.S. concession for Moog and introduced it to Mickey at Monterey. Beaver played it on “Star Collector,” yet another great 60s tune with catchy music and lyrics denigrating groupies. (Two other songs on _Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd._ were about groupies: “She Hangs Out” and “Cuddly Toy.” None of the three were written by a Monkee.) By that time, the 1967 of _Headquarters_, a pun that went over the heads of most of their younger audience, the first they wrote and played most of the instruments on, and _Pisces_ - maybe their best - the Monkees were rock royalty. _Headquarters_ was number two to _Sgt. Peppers_ for the entire Summer of Love. They got Frank Zappa to appear on the show. They were fans of Jimi Hendrix and got the Experience to open for them on tour - a disaster because the still young audience wanted only Monkees and not space noises\* - and hobnobbed with The Beatles in England, who were also fans. That status faded really fast after the show got cancelled and by the end 1968 they were has-beens. But they were Pinocchios who turned into Real Boys for a while. I think every “manufactured” group since them used the rise and fall as a case study. \* their notion, not mine ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6556 "2025-08-18T21:35:43Z")
Pink Floyd’s [“Wish You Were Here”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjpF8ukSrvk&list=OLAK5uy_mzowhqljIOba8BVGEmVkeaWeL2S_bO4bw&index=4) (1975). The song comes from the album of the same name, dedicated to troubled former bandmate Syd Barrett. In the intro, a remote radio frequency broadcasts the faint strumming of one guitarist. Another guitarist, who is listening to the radio, plays along and then takes the lead… …Just as Barrett, the band’s increasingly distant guitarist, was replaced by David Gilmour. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6557 "2025-08-19T01:33:17Z")
The oddest thing that’s I’ve realized about the Monkees was that somehow they resisted doing the obvious, namely singing humorous songs. All the songs were legit songs that could have been recorded by any contemporary band. They hired serious songwriters with the idea of future earnings rather than just throwing it away on joke songs. I think a good comparison of what I mean might be the Rutles or Spinal Tap. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6558 "2025-08-19T02:13:09Z")
Nesmith’s mother was Bette Nesmith Graham, famously the inventor of Liquid Paper correction fluid. Maybe she advised him to look to the future and make the most of an opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6559 "2025-08-19T02:29:21Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > They hired The people who controlled the television show hired them. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6560 "2025-08-19T02:36:50Z")
In a _Simpsons_ episode, Apu jokes around with guest star Elton John after the latter is nearly killed by a low-flying airplane: > Shall I “Take You to the Pilot?” You see, because that is your song…Yes, because “Someone Saved Your Life Tonight.” Given the context, he’s almost certainly saying “…because that is ‘Your Song.’” ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6561 "2025-08-19T02:44:34Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The people who controlled the television show hired them. That was implied. I really meant the producers of the TV show. I thought it was already established in the thread that the Monkees were employees. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6562 "2025-08-19T08:34:42Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Visibility seems like crap. Windows on an interstellar spacecraft should just be cute little skeuomorphs from the days of planes made of wood and fabric. > [@Irishman](#): > > But my impression is that all the detailed schematics and stuff that came along after was fan generated afterwards. That is not the Way. The Way is 100 different editions of Star Wars Blueprints Pop Up Baby Book™ and the Spaceship Deck Plan Multi-volume Collector’s Set™. More seriously - while fan-made deckplans no doubt predate anything official, by 1978-9 official toys with interiors (not to scale) were already being made. And by the early 80s when _Empire_ came out, Ralph Mcquarrie was producing official books with deck cutaways. I very much doubt _he_ based his ideas off fanart. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6563 "2025-08-19T11:01:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Windows on an interstellar spacecraft should just be cute little skeuomorphs from the days of planes made of wood and fabric. Yet another thing _The Expanse_ did right - none of its ships have windows. And those aren’t even interstellar ships. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6564 "2025-08-19T11:44:58Z")
But The Expanse is Science Fiction, Star Wars is Fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6565 "2025-08-19T11:53:42Z")
Eh. Labels. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6566 "2025-08-19T22:55:40Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > The oddest thing that’s I’ve realized about the Monkees was that somehow they resisted doing the obvious, namely singing humorous songs. Does “Gonna buy me a dog” count as humorous? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41JjZfY22a4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41JjZfY22a4) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=327) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=329)