# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 329
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6567 "2025-08-19T23:36:53Z")
Even the Beatles had “humorous” songs. Do you not see the difference between the Monkees catalog vs The Rutles or Spinal Tap? It’s almost as though the producers considered them an actual band rather than a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6568 "2025-08-20T16:27:10Z")
Okay, this one is embarrassing but after fifty years I guess I must come clean. I’ve watched _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ a number of times. And I’ve watched the show and their other movies repeatedly as well. And I am aware that the six members of the group played multiple roles in the movie. But somehow I never recognized that Prince Herbert was played by Terry Jones. In my defense, [this guy](https://images.hobbydb.com/processed_uploads/subject_photo/subject_photo/image/132494/Prince_Herbert_jpg.new5414fd1e-38b2-40a2-bfbf-fad2ae070b66_large.jpg) does not look much like [this guy](https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/200122080153-01-terry-jones-lead-image.jpg?q=x_2,y_246,h_898,w_1596,c_crop/w_1280). ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6569 "2025-08-20T16:41:05Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Nitpicking here and _please_ correct me if I’m wrong. > > Mickey Dolenz was an actor who could sing. > > Davy Jones was a singer who in fact was prominent in the cast of Oliver! on the Ed Sullivan Show, coincidentally the same night as The Beatles first appearance. > > Mike Nesmith was a performing musician and composer well before The Monkees were concocted. > > Peter Tork was also a performing musician (voice, guitar, keyboards) who was recommended for the Monkees by his housemate Steven Stills. > > The only one of the four who learned his instrument as the show went on was Mickey. But did Davey learn to play the tambourine _after_ he became a Monkee? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6570 "2025-08-20T17:36:26Z")
I had to look it up several years ago on IMDb, because I just couldn’t connect Herbert to Trrry Jones. It wasn’t just you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6571 "2025-08-20T18:12:05Z")
I was giving myself an out by implying I finally “realized” it. I didn’t. Like you, I learned it was Jones when I looked it up to find out who played the character. I need a thread for “Obvious things about a creative work you don’t figure out even after the millionth time”. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6572 "2025-08-20T18:15:44Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Does “Gonna buy me a dog” count as humorous? I have the same question regarding “Auntie Grizelda.” ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6573 "2025-08-20T18:19:02Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > But did Davey learn to play the tambourine _after_ he became a Monkee? That thought actually occurred to me. If so I assume he was a quick learner. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6574 "2025-08-20T18:30:39Z")
It didn’t really occur to me until recently that Sam Lowry really was guilty of all the charges leveled at him at the end of _Brazil_. Granted, Mr. Kurtzman tricked Sam into forging his name on the refund check. And Sam was kind of forced to accept Tuttles air conditioning repair work. And it was the child vandals that destroyed his personal transport. But Sam tried to throw himself fully into rebellion once he got into Jills truck. The ministry was fully justified for questioning him. But of course, the means used by Information Retrieval were still horrifying. And it just occurred to me that Central Services personnel showed up like 1 minute after Tuttle. So Sam was actually receiving pretty prompt service. Badgering them for a 27b-6 would have been totally unnecessary (and would have avoided the long-term consequences) if Tuttle had been a minute later. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6575 "2025-08-20T18:44:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve watched _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ a number of times. And I’ve watched the show and their other movies repeatedly as well. And I am aware that the six members of the group played multiple roles in the movie. > > But somehow I never recognized that Prince Herbert was played by Terry Jones. I had a similar revelation re: _Life of Brian_ when I learned that Matthias the stoning victim is meant to be the same character who shows up later as a member of the People’s Front of Judea and pretends to be an old man while the centurions are searching their headquarters. (He’s played by John Young - a.k.a. the historian from _Holy Grail_.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6576 "2025-08-20T22:34:54Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > It didn’t really occur to me until recently that Sam Lowry really was guilty of all the charges leveled at him at the end of _Brazil_. I think the scene you’re referring to is only on the European release. I’ve only seen it once, but I recall it’s from Sam’s POV; the flap covering his face and eyes is pulled back, and someone reads a list of charges, then it’s closed. Then opened again, and some is discussing options for how he can pay for his interrogation. I think there’s one other person he sees, too, but I can’t remember who. Is that the scene you’re thinking of, Hypno-Toad? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6577 "2025-08-20T22:35:04Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > It didn’t really occur to me until recently that Sam Lowry really was guilty of all the charges leveled at him In a similar vein Winston Smith in _ **1984** _ really is guilty of being a traitor, a rebel and a would-be terrorist, excuses not withstanding. O’Brien spells out that the Thought Police don’t like to make martyrs and so cultivate wretches like Smith as genuinely deserving of vaporization. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6578 "2025-08-20T23:15:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Possibly the most famous character in all of D&D, Drizz’t Do’Urden, is… a gnoll hunter. Er, in what sense is Drizz’t Do’Urden a gnoll hunter? He’s not a gnoll himself, and while he’s almost certainly fought them in one or more of the stories about him, I don’t recall it ever being his primary focus. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6579 "2025-08-20T23:22:30Z")
Weren’t gnolls his favored enemy? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6580 "2025-08-21T00:32:31Z")
I always thought his favored enemy was other drow. It’s been decades since I read the books, but gnolls only show up once in his [online biography](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drizzt_Do%2527Urden). His online stats from 3rd edition onwards show “goblinoids” as his primary favored enemy, which I don’t think includes gnolls. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6581 "2025-08-21T00:47:20Z")
Does an icon count as a creative work? I’ve had Lewis Black’s website open in one of my browser tabs all day. I only just now realized that the little icon in that tab is hand with its middle finger raised. That is on brand for Lewis Black. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6582 "2025-08-21T01:57:00Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > the little icon in that tab Favicon. > **[Favicon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon)** > > A favicon (/ˈfæv.ɪˌkɒn/; short for favorite icon), also known as a shortcut icon, website icon, tab icon, URL icon, or bookmark icon, is a file containing one or more small icons associated with a particular website or web page. A web designer can create such an icon and upload it to a website (or web page) by several means, and graphical web browsers will then make use of it. Browsers that provide favicon support typically display a page's favicon in the browser's address bar (someti > In March... ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6583 "2025-08-21T02:09:25Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I have the same question regarding “Auntie Grizelda.” So, a scant handful of slightly amusing songs out of over 120 negates my point that, musically, the Monkees were not a joke band? Largely written by the top song writers of the time and recorded by the Wrecking Crew, they are legit songs rather than pastiches and parodies that would have been the obvious soundtrack to a wacky comedy show. I dunno. I thought it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6584 "2025-08-21T04:23:17Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > So, a scant handful of slightly amusing songs out of over 120 negates my point that, musically, the Monkees were not a joke band? Nah, doesn’t negate your point. I lazily misread your statement and was being nitpicky. > [@caligulathegod](#): > > Largely written by the top song writers of the time and recorded by the Wrecking Crew, they are legit songs rather than pastiches and parodies that would have been the obvious soundtrack to a wacky comedy show. I dunno. I thought it interesting. I have to say I never thought much about this, just took the overall quality of the music for granted, but you’re right. And it _is_ interesting. Edit: In fact I watched maybe two episodes ever, considered the TV show dispensible. (Despite Mickey’s being funny.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6585 "2025-08-21T09:00:55Z")
During Robin Williams’s first broadcast in _Good Morning, Vietnam_, he starts his first record on the wrong speed. It’s too slow. So then he intentionally plays it too fast, then imitates playing it backwards, making sounds like a record being played backwards while interspersing that with “Freddy is the devil.” I always assumed that it was just a name that Robin Williams threw in there while he was ad-libbing. It wasn’t until my most recent viewing that it clicked: the record he was going to play that started all of the improving was by Freddy & the Dreamers. 🤦🏻 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2025, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6586 "2025-08-21T09:15:18Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > (He’s played by John Young - a.k.a. the historian from _Holy Grail_.) This I did not know. Hah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=328) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=330)