# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 339
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2025, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6767 "2025-12-07T20:46:25Z")
I was rehearsing pretty much the entire _Evita_ musical in my head earlier today, and this stanza, where Evita rejects the upper classes, struck me differently than it did in my teens: _The actress hasn’t learned the lines you’d like to hear_ _She won’t join your clubs, she won’t dance in your halls_ _She won’t help the hungry once a month at your tombolas_ _She’ll simply take control as you disappear_ The word “disappear” is probably not figurative, as the dictatorship of Juan Perón was responsible for a lot of people “disappearing.” Pretty chilling. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2025, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6768 "2025-12-07T22:22:47Z")
The disappeared were intellectuals, union men and peronists who opposed the dictatorship of the markedly anti-peronists US-backed military in 1976-1983. There were enough authoritarian measures during all of Peron’s constitutional governments 1945-1955 and 1973-1974 (he won the democratic elections 3 times) that you could sorta call him a dictator, but there were not “disappeared” and no mass killings. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2025, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6769 "2025-12-07T22:37:14Z")
After I posted that I went and read through the Wikipedia article on him and yeah, my thought was inaccurate. It looks like things really ramped up after his death. I wonder what Argentinians thought of _Evita_ (the musical.) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2025, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6770 "2025-12-07T22:44:20Z")
I hadn’t, but I was just reviewing the synopsis on Wikipedia. I guess, Randy becomes a hippy drug guy after _The Outsiders_ repulsed him from the whole class v class thing. He rebels, drops out, turns on and tunes in. If it were me, I’d have Randy go to San Francisco to become a hippy so he would be encouraged to come out so he could properly mourn the only boy he ever truly loved - or who ever really made him a gimp power bottom, like Bob did. That’s just me - you picture it how you want. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6771 "2025-12-08T03:05:53Z")
I didn’t see it because I share Homer Simpson’s opinion that musicals are humanity’s lowest form of entertainment. Among those who did (and those who didn’t but nevertheless felt entitled to an opinion) reactions ran the gamut from indignation against the “slurs against Evita” from ultraperonists, to indignation against the “sanctification of ‘that woman’” from ultra-antiperonists and all possible opinions in-between. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6772 "2025-12-08T03:23:40Z")
I guess I could have predicted that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6773 "2025-12-08T03:59:09Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I share Homer Simpson’s opinion that musicals are humanity’s lowest form of entertainment. Even “Planet of the Apes”? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6774 "2025-12-08T04:32:36Z")
I make an exception for legitimate theater ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6775 "2025-12-08T12:51:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Even “Planet of the Apes”? It was _Stop the Planet of the Apes, I want to Get Off_, parodying both PotA and Anthon Newley’s _Stop the World I Want o Get Off_. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6776 "2025-12-08T17:59:14Z")
Thanks, I couldn’t find a cite that gave the in-story name of the production. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6777 "2025-12-08T18:05:51Z")
He also enjoyed _Stab-a-Lot: The Itchy and Scratchy Musical_, with book by Tom Stoppard. (Homer: “This isn’t a book, it’s a play!”) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6778 "2025-12-08T18:21:36Z")
I thought Tom Stoppard only wrote bottle episodes ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6779 "2025-12-08T21:42:39Z")
Hey, wait a minute, if Homer didn’t like musicals, he wouldn’t have liked the Monorail Song… (Just checked… Homer was singing along!) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZDOI0cq6GZM/hqdefault.jpg "Simpsons - Monorail Song") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6780 "2025-12-08T23:34:55Z")
> [@digs](#): > > if Homer didn’t like musicals, he wouldn’t have liked the Monorail Song Hey, he doesn’t _like_ them, he never said he _couldn’t do_ them! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6781 "2025-12-09T00:29:51Z")
Well, I like musicals. The way they burst into song whenever they have a strong feeling is very relatable to me. Of course you can’t hold all your feelings inside! _Evita_ was my jam in high school because Madonna. Evita and Madonna apparently shared in common a penchant for social climbing, sexual manipulation and trying to rule the world, which is why Madonna begged for the part. (I don’t know how accurate that characterization of Evita is, but it’s spot-on for Madonna.) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6782 "2025-12-09T01:25:52Z")
I love musicals too and I burst into song quite often. ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2025, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6783 "2025-12-13T05:49:47Z")
The Shining. Jack Torrance has chased his son Danny into the hedge maze with an ax. Danny escapes and Jack is lost in the maze. HE HAS AN AX! WHY DOESN’T HE JUST CHOP HIS WAY OUT??? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6784 "2025-12-13T15:47:24Z")
They just showed a restored print in IMAX format last night! I’d never seen it, so it was a treat. And… I have an answer. Jack’s going crazy, and totally focused on finding his son in the maze. That’s what the axe is for, it’s a weapon, not a tool; he’s not thinking rationally. And he’s limping on a sprained/broken ankle from his tumble down the stairs. He’s also holding his chest and screaming. Nicholson was perfectly cast, and really sold Jack as becoming increasingly obsessed. Including that effect of “What does someone like that do when they can’t get what they’re obsessed with? They deflate, they give up.” Oh, also, the kid had played in the maze (who knows how many times) and knew his way out. Jack knew he was lost. And had lost. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6785 "2025-12-13T16:02:46Z")
> [@digs](#): > > And… I have an answer. Jack’s going crazy, and totally focused on finding his son in the maze. That’s what the axe is for, it’s a weapon, not a tool; he’s not thinking rationally. Good question, and good reply. I would also add that an ax is probably not the optimal tool for chopping one’s way out of a maze like that, especially in the bitter cold when everything is covered in snow and you have a very limited time before you freeze to death. I suspect he would be doomed to failure even if he tried. Of course, logic dictates that he try anyway. It’s his only chance, slight though that chance might be. But as noted, he wouldn’t be thinking logically. In his mind, the ax is simply a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6786 "2025-12-13T16:16:10Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > But as noted, he wouldn’t be thinking logically. In his mind, the ax is simply a weapon. It’s like the opposite of Jumanji! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=338) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=340)