# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 342
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6827 "2026-01-18T00:04:15Z")
I never noticed that either! How neat. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6828 "2026-01-18T00:10:13Z")
I think I noticed the boats, but not the sailors. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6829 "2026-01-18T19:21:59Z")
Did you know The Great Wave off Kanagawa was part of a set of paintings called Thirty-Six Views of Mount Fuji? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6830 "2026-01-18T19:35:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That’s because Kubrick focused on producing a stunning piece of visual art rather than telling a story. For that you have to read the Clarke novel. Agreed. The book is better. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6831 "2026-01-28T00:09:01Z")
The discussion of the ending of _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ over in [this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-cop-out-in-the-end/1027099/31) reminded me of this – Arthur was _framed_! The knight who killed that historian earlier in the film was riding a horse. Arthur doesn’t have a horse! Nor do any of his knights. The police have the wrong guy! I watched that movie so many times I pretty much had it memorized in high school. But I didn’t notice that until someone else pointed it out. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2026, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6832 "2026-01-30T02:10:15Z")
TIL learned from the **History of Rock in 500 Songs** podcast that Chubby Checker’s name - a stagename of course - was a parody of Fats Domino 🙄 Apparently he got his start making parody records of various artists including Domino, and that was the comedy name they chose for that track. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6833 "2026-02-21T16:35:47Z")
In _Pulp Fiction_, Marcellus pays Butch to throw his upcoming fight, and to do it in the fifth round. Presumably, Marcellus plans to bet heavily on Butch losing. Who is Marcellus going to bet with? If a gangster came to me and offered such a specific bet, I’d know something was up. In 1994, were there places that Marcellus could go to make that wager that wouldn’t recognize him and instantly suspect that he had some inside information? Marcellus Wallace was probably not a household name, but he seems like someone who would be known in the L.A. underworld, or to anyone who’d be taking bets on a fight. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6834 "2026-02-21T16:40:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Who is Marcellus going to bet with? If a gangster came to me and offered such a specific bet, I’d know something was up. In 1994, were there places that Marcellus could go to make that wager that wouldn’t recognize him and instantly suspect that he had some inside information? Marcellus Wallace was probably not a household name, but he seems like someone who would be known in the L.A. underworld, or to anyone who’d be taking bets on a fight. Doesn’t he have employees? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6835 "2026-02-21T16:40:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > In _Pulp Fiction_, Marcellus pays Butch to throw his upcoming fight, and to do it in the fifth round. Presumably, Marcellus plans to bet heavily on Butch losing. > > Who is Marcellus going to bet with? If a gangster came to me and offered such a specific bet, I’d know something was up. In 1994, were there places that Marcellus could go to make that wager that wouldn’t recognize him and instantly suspect that he had some inside information? Marcellus Wallace was probably not a household name, but he seems like someone who would be known in the L.A. underworld, or to anyone who’d be taking bets on a fight. That “you’re taking a fall” has been a part of boxing movies since sound came it. Wallace would simply send flunkies to place the bet, in small amounts with a bunch of bookies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6836 "2026-02-21T16:42:00Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > That “you’re taking a fall” has been a part of boxing movies since sound came it. Wallace would simply send flunkies to place the bet, in small amounts with a bunch of bookies. Heck, to distribute small amounts to his _other_ flunkies, he could first hand it off to one of his flunkies in, say, a briefcase, or — hey, wait a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6837 "2026-02-21T17:46:44Z")
You think Marcellus’s flunkies aren’t known to the local bookies? Well, maybe not someone who’s been in Amsterdam for three years. Speaking of which, is it ever explained why Vincent was in Amsterdam? AI is telling me that he was running a nightclub for Marcellus, but I don’t remember that from the movie. And I’m a little surprised that Marcellus would have such globe-spanning interests. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6838 "2026-02-21T17:48:20Z")
Team, are we actually debating whether or not a mob boss can lay bets? He would just place them in Vegas or Atlantic City and hope the activity wouldn’t move the market. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6839 "2026-02-21T17:51:00Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Speaking of which, is it ever explained why Vincent was in Amsterdam? Implication was that he was laying low from the heat. But, yes, it was never explained. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6840 "2026-02-21T17:56:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He would just place them in Vegas or Atlantic City and hope the activity wouldn’t move the market. Would the books in Vegas take his bets, or would they recognize someone like Marcellus and realize that the fix was in? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6841 "2026-02-21T17:56:42Z")
In **The Sting** , Redford has a cup of Joe in the diner and the way he holds his mug has always seemed fluky — middle and ring fingers through the handle, pinky and index fingers braced against the side of the mug, thumb sticking straight up. I wondered if that was some affectation of the 1930s that has since disappeared but, no, Redford, IRL, was working with a broken thumb. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2026, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6842 "2026-02-21T18:31:07Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > IL learned from the **History of Rock in 500 Songs** podcast that Chubby Checker’s name - a stagename of course - was a parody of Fats Domino 🙄 > > Apparently he got his start making parody records of various artists including Domino, and that was the comedy name they chose for that track. I always figured the name was obviously “inspired” by FD, but had no idea about the story behind it. I thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2026, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6843 "2026-02-22T03:34:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Who is Marcellus going to bet with? If a gangster came to me and offered such a specific bet, I’d You can make such specific bets now, it’s one of the reasons games like Tennis have moved to automatic like calls – if you are betting on the next serve being out, you want the call to be accurate. But Marcellus only has to be on Butch losing. The specific instruction is to make the fight look good: if you are giving coaching instructions to a boxer, you are always specific. The specific instruction also allows you to put on bets late, to get better odds, but that kind of instruction is used even when the fight isn’t fixed. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2026, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6844 "2026-02-22T13:01:16Z")
I certainly didn’t think that Marcellus was going to place bets with anyone. It seemed much more likely that he was intending to cheat those who have been placing bets with HIM. If the action has been mostly Butch winning, either by KO or points, Butch lasting all 10 rounds, or anything other than Butch KOed in the fifth, he would come out way ahead. And, of course, he can manipulate the odds he is giving to further influence the betting action and make even more money. (But he has to be subtle. “Butch losing in the 4th, 8 to 1. Butch losing in the 6th, 9 to 1. Butch losing in the 5th, 2 to 1. Yeah…don’t ask me. That’s the word from Marcellus.”) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2026, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6845 "2026-02-22T15:26:25Z")
Yeah, Marcellus was the “house” and the house “fixing” the game has a long history. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2026, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/6846 "2026-02-22T17:01:56Z")
This is all specifically referenced in the movie when Butch tells Scottie (his accomplice) that after it got out that the fix was in, the odds on Butch winning would go way up. That’s how he got his payday… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=341) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=343)