# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 358
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7147 "2026-07-30T16:01:06Z")
My millionth time realization about Steely Dan’s “Do It Again” was that the three verses are about _three different people_. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7148 "2026-07-30T17:22:55Z")
Consolation prize? Steeleye Span is British, but they’re folk rock. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7149 "2026-07-30T17:26:46Z")
Is that like Stickley Stapers (with four M’s and a silent Q.)? ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7150 "2026-07-30T20:23:42Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > My millionth time realization about Steely Dan’s “Do It Again” was that the three verses are about _three different people_ I knew it was about 3 different vices, but it could be the same person with multiple vices. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7151 "2026-07-31T00:51:15Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > In one episode there was a fight scene in the engine room and when they cut to the long shots of Kirk and whoever fighting, it was plain as day that both men were stunt doubles, not Shatner and whoever. The audience erupted in laughter. Yeah, but we could tell that on our 40 in set in 1980. > [@Chronos](#): > > What’s worse is when you see old costumes up close, in a museum display or the like. A cosplayer would be ashamed to be seen in something so crude. Yes. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > displays of costumes from a TV show or movie in a museum of TV? > > In the latter case, I presume they either weren’t hero costumes, or else they have deteriorated over time. Yes to the movie costumes - but they were hero outfits. The infamous Princess Leia Bikini is surprisingly shoddy up close. And Dorothy’s ruby slippers were red sequins. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7152 "2026-07-31T02:19:38Z")
> [@robby](#): > > There are actually three department heads on a U.S. submarine: > “WEPS” = Weapons Officer > “NAV” = Navigation Officer aka Navigator > “ENG” (pronounced like the first syllable of engineer) = Engineering Officer aka the [Chief] Engineer What do you have against the Chop? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7153 "2026-07-31T02:46:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > > > So, should we address Chumley’s poor choices for evening attire? > > Cholomodeney, please, if it’s not too much trouble. Nitpick: Cholmondely ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7154 "2026-07-31T02:57:22Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > There are actually three department heads on a U.S. submarine: > > “WEPS” = Weapons Officer > > “NAV” = Navigation Officer aka Navigator > > “ENG” (pronounced like the first syllable of engineer) = Engineering Officer aka the [Chief] Engineer > > What do you have against the Chop? My bad. 🤦‍♂️ I forgot the Supply Officer was a department head too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7155 "2026-07-31T03:05:03Z")
I was driving through Rochester this evening and saw a billboard for an upcoming concert. I was today years old when I learned that the former singer from Foreigner is Lou Gramm not Lou Graham. Armed with this new knowledge, I was able to look him up on Wikipedia and learn his last name is actually Grammatico and he is a Rochester native. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7156 "2026-07-31T03:22:47Z")
And still lives in Webster, a suburb thereof. You can drive past his house on your way to Dinosaur Bar-B-Q. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7157 "2026-07-31T03:35:51Z")
I wasn’t in Webster tonight but I was in Irondequoit, which is the next town over. So I think I can say I was hanging out with Lou today. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7158 "2026-07-31T04:51:50Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The infamous Princess Leia Bikini is surprisingly shoddy up close. But so what? It was created to look good on screen, and it did its job. Absolutely nobody making the film cared what it would look like up close in a museum years later. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7159 "2026-07-31T05:46:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “saving the family farm from greedy developers buying up all the water rights,” is still got a strong _Grapes of Wrath_ populist anger to it. More like [Owens Valley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_water_wars). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7160 "2026-07-31T12:14:56Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Steely Dan are from New York state — Annandale-on-Hudson. What’s the point of being here without being pedantic? Donald Fagan is from New Jersey. Walter Becker is from Queens, New York. They met at Bards College at Annandale-on-Hudson (where they are apparently never going back). They formed several different bands there but none were Steely Dan. One band was called Leather Canary. The drummer for Leather Canary was another Bard’s student named Chevy Chase. They formed Steely Dan several years after college after they tried being a song writing duo. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7161 "2026-07-31T12:53:00Z")
For some reason, my brain has always tied Steely Dan with Winston-Salem, NC. Probably because of Deacon Blue. I knew they weren’t for two reasons: 1 - The Demon Deacons aren’t blue. 2 - Winston-Salem wouldn’t stop crowing about it, if they were from there. But, nope! My brain has firmly planted them as from Winston-Salem. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7162 "2026-07-31T12:57:39Z")
Two can play at this: “Steely Dan” is/was a vibrator/dildo type of sex toy. I wonder what “Leather Canary” means. 😳 Chevy Chase is NOT named for the DC suburb (his real first name is Cornelius ::snicker::). ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7163 "2026-07-31T13:08:11Z")
Was he given the nickname because of the suburb? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7164 "2026-07-31T15:00:57Z")
From Wikipedia: Chase was named for his adoptive grandfather, Cornelius, while the nickname “Chevy” was bestowed by his grandmother from the English ballad “[The Ballad of Chevy Chase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ballad_of_Chevy_Chase "The Ballad of Chevy Chase")”. As a descendant of the Scottish [Clan Douglas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas "Clan Douglas"), she thought the name appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7165 "2026-07-31T15:04:55Z")
Both the comedian and the suburb got their names from the ballad. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7166 "2026-07-31T15:05:56Z")
Figured as much. Does this mean they’re cousins?😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=357) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=359)