# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 362
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7227 "2026-08-20T13:27:04Z")
Everything ever written is a retelling of _Taming of the Shrew_, except for the short story in the “Conde Lucanor” series by an Spanish writer of the 14th century called “_De lo que aconteció a un mozo que casó con una muchacha de muy mal carácter_” (About what happened to a boy who married a girl of very bad nature). “The Taming of the Shrew” is a retelling of that short story… ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7228 "2026-08-20T13:31:10Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > (About what happened to a boy who married a girl of very bad nature). Upcoming anime name!😉 ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7229 "2026-08-20T13:39:16Z")
If you ask Michael Chabon, all literature from the _Aeneid_ onward is fanfiction. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7230 "2026-08-20T13:40:31Z")
I have my doubts about the _Epic of Gilgamesh_ to be honest… ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7231 "2026-08-20T14:09:32Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Everything ever written is a retelling of _Taming of the Shrew_, except for the short story in the “Conde Lucanor” series by an Spanish writer of the 14th century called “_De lo que aconteció a un mozo que casó con una muchacha de muy mal carácter_” (About what happened to a boy who married a girl of very bad nature). > “The Taming of the Shrew” is a retelling of that short story… FYI, I was drinking coffee when I read that. That may have been a strategic error. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7232 "2026-08-20T14:26:46Z")
The stories are very similar! Or so I think, because I participated in a play adapting “Conde Lucanor” in high school in about 1993 or so, and I saw Moonlighting’s version of “Taming of the Shrew” in the 80’s… my sources are not precisely at PhD tesis levels… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7233 "2026-08-20T14:45:25Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I have my doubts about the _Epic of Gilgamesh_ to be honest… The Simpsons did it first. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7234 "2026-08-20T16:44:16Z")
So I collect these historical-people dolls. It started with [Nikola Tesla](https://philosophersguild.com/products/nikola-tesla-little-thinker?srsltid=AfmBOootQWxzAsLgDmtLIa5dUFybM5ljgchKHvA3pmQHCRVbiVendxcp) and went from there. Mr. Rilch was asking me which ones I still don’t have, and I had my Phoebe moment. “Little **Thinkers** – OMG, I just now got that!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7235 "2026-08-21T00:44:21Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Everything ever written is a retelling of _Taming of the Shrew_, except for the short story in the “Conde Lucanor” series by an Spanish writer of the 14th century called “_De lo que aconteció a un mozo que casó con una muchacha de muy mal carácter_” (About what happened to a boy who married a girl of very bad nature). > “The Taming of the Shrew” is a retelling of that short story… The Taming of the Shrew is also a retelling of The Taming of the Shrew. Shakespeare plagiarized it off of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7236 "2026-08-21T01:07:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Taming of the Shrew is also a retelling of The Taming of the Shrew. Shakespeare plagiarized it off of himself. > [@Frodo](#): > > Everything ever written is a retelling of _Taming of the Shrew_ “Everything ever written” _includes_ “The taming of the Shrew”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7237 "2026-08-21T01:24:31Z")
Yup, that was my point. The ontology of the story is a deep philosophical mystery, since there was never actually a first telling, only retellings. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7238 "2026-08-21T01:34:01Z")
Borges would’ve written a great story out of that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7239 "2026-08-21T01:49:58Z")
Eh, Borges already beat him to it. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7240 "2026-08-21T01:51:40Z")
Not before Borges though… ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7241 "2026-08-21T02:39:17Z")
What about _The Shrewing of the Tame_? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7242 "2026-08-21T02:52:55Z")
The one by Edmund Wells, or the one by Pierre Ménard? (ETA: I just saw how Python fans have humorously, harmlessly vandalized sites like Goodreads with Edmund Wells book descriptions. How very Borges — like the encyclopedia volume in “Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius.”) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7243 "2026-08-21T03:10:35Z")
Wait! Are you saying that _Stickley Stapers_ with four M’s and a silent Q isn’t real? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7244 "2026-08-21T05:03:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Shakespeare plagiarized it off of himself. I didn’t know Saul Zaentz had represented Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7245 "2026-08-21T06:29:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yup, that was my point. The ontology of the story is a deep philosophical mystery, since there was never actually a first telling, only retellings. It’s shrews all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2026, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/7246 "2026-08-21T12:23:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yup, that was my point. The ontology of the story is a deep philosophical mystery, since there was never actually a first telling, only retellings. Now that I think of it, that would point to Robert Heinlein as the _original_ original author, in the first timeline at least… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=361) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=363)