# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/61 "2009-07-28T17:29:49Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I have posted about working for a year on an annotated versions of Ira Levin’s “Rosemary’s Baby,” only to look at the cover six months later and realize: > > Rosemary’s Baby. > Rose-mary’s Baby > _Mary’s Baby_:smack: I guess I don’t see the huge significance of that?? If it’s the devil or antichrist, it’s not Mary’s baby, and “Rosemary’s baby” doesn’t imply an opposite…?? ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/62 "2009-07-28T17:41:59Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I hesitate to mention this, because last time we did one of these it came close to derailing the thread. But Kris in _Miracle on 34th Street_? Just a nice old man with whiskers. He’s the beneficiary of a dozen people making more or less self-interested decisions (Macy and Gimbel wanting to look good for their customers; Fred hating his old job and wanting something outrageous to build his resume; Doris needing to prove to Fred that she wasn’t a wrinkled up prune; the judge and political boss counting votes, and the post office getting rid of all those dead letters). > > It’s easier to see in the full-length version, as the broadcast one cuts a few important bits to fit in an extra commercial – most importantly, the scene where Macy and Gimbel are fighting over who gets to buy Kris the X-Ray machine so they can look good in front of the press. > > –Cliffy …and you shouldn’t have mentioned it, because now I have to rebut you. 😃 All those things happened because Kris was the real deal. You think all that stuff would have lined up so nicely if Kris was just some potty old dodger from the old-age home? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/63 "2009-07-28T19:40:40Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You’re correct, but the final scene makes it clear that he’s more than just a nice old man with whiskers. Yes, he’s a nice old man who knows how to read the real estate section of the paper. I don’t understand why you think it’s any sort of coup de grace. The house wasn’t free or anything. You think on any given weekend you couldn’t find at least one house for sale in the greater metro New York area with a swing in the back? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/64 "2009-07-28T19:54:44Z")
A house that looked **exactly** like the one in the picture that Susan had been wishing for? ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/65 "2009-07-28T19:56:05Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > Not something creative but… I have a habit of trying to figure out what the different letters on the back of cars mean. Only recently did I realize what the A in Audi A4, A6, and A8 stands for. Duh!:smack: I’ve seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it’s a road going off to infinity . . . ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/66 "2009-07-28T20:05:43Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I guess I don’t see the huge significance of that?? If it’s the devil or antichrist, it’s not Mary’s baby, and “Rosemary’s baby” doesn’t imply an opposite…?? I meant to ask about this when it was mentioned in another thread. I thought the thing was the “rose” part as meaning “Mary’s baby arose” but it still doesn’t make much sense to me. Please 'splain to my dense self:confused: ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/67 "2009-07-28T20:14:23Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I meant to ask about this when it was mentioned in another thread. I thought the thing was the “rose” part as meaning “Mary’s baby arose” but it still doesn’t make much sense to me. Please 'splain to my dense self:confused: I just thought she meant that it was a play on Mary. Mary, Rosemary. If there’s something more to it, then I’m also dense. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/68 "2009-07-28T20:20:01Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Yes, he’s a nice old man who knows how to read the real estate section of the paper. I don’t understand why you think it’s any sort of coup de grace. The house wasn’t free or anything. You think on any given weekend you couldn’t find at least one house for sale in the greater metro New York area with a swing in the back? Considering the fact that he _had no way to get to the house_, yes. Kris didn’t drive, and he was only available to get there the night after the trial, when there was no one available to drive him (the characters were all with family). Since he left his cane – it’s too much a coincidence otherwise – he had to physically be in the house. Kris did not have a car – it was specifically mentioned he took a train into the city before he moved in with Fred. Further, Kris wanted to make sure Susan and Doris believed in him. He did not fully get that confirmation until Christmas morning, when Doris said\* “I was wrong when I told you that, Susie. You must believe in Mr. Kringle and keep right on doing it. You must have faith in him.” His wanted Susan to believe in make believe and miracles; Susan did not until then. If he had gone to the house on Christmas Eve (even though logistically impossible), he would have given her the house without her believing in Santa. \*Her note on Susan’s letter was “I believe in you,” not “I believe in Santa.” Major difference. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/69 "2009-07-28T20:20:06Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > I’ve seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it’s a road going off to infinity . . . I’ve owned Subarus for years…and only recently found out that “Subaru” is Japanese for Pleiades, hence the logo. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/70 "2009-07-28T21:16:33Z")
I was just now at the gym on the treadmill, watching a re-run of “Will & Grace” when it suddenly struck me that the names of the two characters (and the series) is an ironic twist: The character Eric McCormack plays is smart, successful, handsome, but a big pushover. He always knuckles under to Grace and Jack, objecting to their many outrageous demands on him but constantly doing what they want him to do. He’s intimidated by his mother, and must often be coaxed into standing up for himself. He has no **WILL** power. The character Debra Messing plays is a sexy, but extremely neurotic red-head, prone to shrill outbursts. She has no qualms about making huge public spectacle of herself on a routine basis. She is severely lacking in social **GRACE**. Will & Grace. Or rather “weak-willed & graceless.” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/71 "2009-07-28T21:22:20Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > I’ve seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it’s a road going off to infinity . . . I **still** don’t get what **Daddypants** is talking about re: the A in Audi A4, etc. Can someone explain?!? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/72 "2009-07-28T21:25:49Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I’ve owned Subarus for years…and only recently found out that “Subaru” is Japanese for Pleiades, hence the logo. And “Mitsubishi” is Japanese for “three diamonds,” hence its logo. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/73 "2009-07-28T21:28:21Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > I’ve seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it’s a road going off to infinity . . . It’s also a stylized figure-eight infinity symbol. But maybe you got that part. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/74 "2009-07-28T21:35:32Z")
I’d like to go ahead and put in a request that the _Miracle on 34th Street_ issue be taken to its own thread where it can get the breathing room it needs. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/75 "2009-07-28T21:37:20Z")
Not about a work of art, but I’d been reading posts by the SDMB’s own **Ellis Dee** for at least four years before I realized (upon hearing the name spoken) that “Ellis Dee” = LSD. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/76 "2009-07-28T21:38:56Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Not about a work of art, but I’d been reading posts by the SDMB’s own **Ellis Dee** for at least four years before I realized (upon hearing the name spoken) that “Ellis Dee” = LSD. I didn’t either till just now. Doh. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/77 "2009-07-28T23:19:28Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > It’s also a stylized figure-eight infinity symbol. But maybe you got that part. :smack: Um, no, I didn’t. Over the years, every now and then when seeing the logo, the thought would flit across my mind as to why a car named “Infiniti” had a stylized “A” in a circle for it’s logo . . . But in defense of my brain cells, I had no trouble spotting the arrow in the Fed Ex logo. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/78 "2009-07-29T02:34:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Maybe we’re being whooshed, but there’s nothing in the lyrics that remotely suggests this. Young love, yes. Making love, yes. Anal sex? No. Oh, c’mon. “Making love in the green grass, \*behind \*the stadium with you…” You don’t have to be Fellini to get the symbolism. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/79 "2009-07-29T10:49:15Z")
OK. I knew who General Lee was. I knew what the Confederate flag looked like but… I watched most of the Dukes of Hazzard before putting 2 and 2 together.I ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/80 "2009-07-29T13:22:02Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Oh, c’mon. “Making love in the green grass, \*behind \*the stadium with you…” You don’t have to be Fellini to get the symbolism. 😃 Backfield in motion…? I’ve posted this one before, but it took many years of listening and not hearing before I realized Scarborough Fair is about impossible demands: Tell her to make me a cambric shirt, Without no seams nor needlework [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=5)