# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1081 "2011-06-15T02:38:53Z")
I just realized recently that all three actors in the original Broadway lyrics to _Grease_’s “Look At Me, I’m Sandra Dee” (Troy Donahue, Rock Hudson and Sal Mineo) were gay (and closeted at the time that _Grease_ was supposed to be set (and for at least one of them, at the time that _Grease_ was written and produced)). I’m pretty sure that was intentional, given that one of the writer/composers of the show was gay. Otherwise, it’s a pretty incredible coincidence. (The movie substituted Elvis for Sal Mineo, which completely breaks the concept…I’m guessing some executive at Paramount was a lot quicker on the uptake than I was.) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1082 "2011-06-15T03:24:06Z")
On the logo thing - it took me years to see the little kiwis in the [Canterbury Clothing logo](http://www.seeklogo.com/images/C/Canterbury-logo-5A670D725D-seeklogo.com.gif). ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1083 "2011-06-15T09:24:19Z")
> [@Xylo](#): > > This one occured to me on my way home this morning. > > Tom & Jerry –\> Tommies & Jerries –\> Britain vs Germany in WW1. > > That’s not a stretch, right? > > Right? I don’t think it’s a stretch – there are more unlikely links, after all. As it happens, that isn’t actually the origin of Tom and Jerry, though. The original Tom and Jerry were the heroes of _Life in London or, the Day and Night Scenes of Jerry Hawthorn, esq., and his elegant friend, Corinthian Tom, accompanied by Bob Logic, the Oxonian, in their rambles and Sprees through the Metropolis_\* by [Pierce Egan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_Egan) who were hugely popular characters in stories and plays on both sides of the Atlantic from the 1820s on. Their fame may have faded by the 1940s, but the [cocktail](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_and_Jerry_(mixed_drink)) was still well-enough known to make Tom and Jerry obvious names for a pair of characters. - Popularly shortened to “Tom and Jerry”, and no wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1084 "2011-06-15T11:43:11Z")
Also, the cat was originally called Jasper. > **[Tom Cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cat)** > > Thomas Jasper "Tom" Cat Sr. is a fictional character and one of the two titular main protagonists (the other being Jerry Mouse) in Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's series of Tom and Jerry theatrical animated short films. Created by William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, he is a grey and white anthropomorphic domestic short haired mute tuxedo British cat who first appeared in the 1940 MGM animated short Puss Gets the Boot. The cat was known as "Jasper" during his debut in the short; however, beginning with His... ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1085 "2011-06-15T12:03:40Z")
Watching part of 1970s “The Pallisers” miniseries last night for the 3rd or 4th time made me realize something about “Brideshead Revisited,” which I’ve seen/read dozens of times. In the Pallisers series, Plantagenet’s and Glencora’s eldest son is also named Plantagenet after his father. When the father becomes a Duke, the son becomes the Earl of Silverbridge, and his parents, brother, and sister all call him “Silverbridge” thereafter.\* It’s only just occurred to me that it’s the same thing with Bridey in “Brideshead Revisited”–he’s the Earl of Brideshead; “Bridey” is a nickname his family call him based on his title, and not his actual name. We never do learn his real name. * * * \*In the miniseries, Silverbridge is played by Anthony Andrews, and his chum from Oxford whom he goes to Venice with is Jeremy Irons, which never ceases to amuse me. ---
**Author:** ![\_Tamar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/fbc32d/32.png) [@\_Tamar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Tamar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1086 "2011-06-17T06:39:19Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’ve read the Harry Potter books several times, but it wasn’t until I was flipping channels the other night when _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_ was on that I realized that Harry’s aunt, Petunia, and mother, Lilly, are both named after flowers. Large numbers of the characters are named after flowers. Even some that aren’t thought to be, are: Remus’s last name is Lupin, which means a kind of flower as well as wolf. Lupin’s name also resonates with Arsene Lupin, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) gentleman thief characters. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1087 "2011-06-17T14:46:22Z")
> [@Tamar](#): > > Lupin’s name also resonates with Arsene Lupin, one of the earliest (if not the earliest) gentleman thief characters. [hijack] And don’t forget… Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore Riding through the night Soon every lupin in the land Will be in his mighty hand He steals them from the rich And gives them to the poor Mr. Moore, Lupin donor, Extraordinare [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1088 "2011-06-17T15:26:14Z")
_Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore He’s not in this thread_ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1089 "2011-06-17T15:37:50Z")
> [@Corner\_Case](#): > > [hijack] > And don’t forget… > Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore > Riding through the night > Soon every lupin in the land > Will be in his mighty hand > He steals them from the rich > And gives them to the poor > Mr. Moore, Lupin donor, Extraordinare > [/hijack] “He steals from the poor and gives to the rich - stupid bitch!” Speaking of Monty Python, I had seen “Holy Grail” about a million times before I noticed just what kind of “scientific experiment” that Sir Bedimere was performing at the start of the [witch burning](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU) scene. (It’s a running in-joke in the movie.) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1090 "2011-06-17T17:13:23Z")
I was reminded the other day of how long it took me to realize that when Richie Aprille on _The Sopranos_ talks about Nigerians, he is, in his own droll way, being polite. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1091 "2011-06-17T17:54:36Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Speaking of Monty Python, I had seen “Holy Grail” about a million times before I noticed just what kind of “scientific experiment” that Sir Bedimere was performing at the start of the [witch burning](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU) scene. (It’s a running in-joke in the movie.) And of course, that same scene has been referenced repeatedly in Marvel, specifically X-Men comics, when characters who were thought dead make a reappearance: “But … you were dead!” “I got better.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1092 "2011-06-21T18:13:13Z")
I didn’t realize till I read [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13940797#post13940797) post that not only did Billy Joel get the people and events mentioned in We Didn’t Start the Fire to rhyme and line up with the music, but he did it in _chronological order_. I don’t see how that is even possible. Man is a genius!!! ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1093 "2011-06-21T18:23:59Z")
Never Mind ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1094 "2011-06-21T18:31:00Z")
**Enright3** this thread has been ressurected more times than Jason! Feel free to chime in. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1095 "2011-06-21T18:41:22Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I didn’t realize till I read [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13940797#post13940797) post that not only did Billy Joel get the people and events mentioned in We Didn’t Start the Fire to rhyme and line up with the music, but he did it in _chronological order_. I don’t see how that is even possible. > > Man is a genius!!! You’re welcome! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1096 "2011-06-21T18:41:49Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > _Family Guy_ is set in the city of _Quahog_. Their watering hole is called _The Drunken Clam_. > > Only took me about a thousand episodes to put those two together. 😕 I had to look up Quahog to even know that it wasn’t just a made up name. The hard clam (Mercenaria mercenaria), also known as a _**quahog (or quahaug),**_ round clam, or hard-shell (or hard-shelled) clam, is an edible marine bivalve mollusk which is native to the eastern shores of North America, ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1097 "2011-07-10T14:40:54Z")
Forgive me if someone’s mentioned this already. I did search, but didn’t see any mention. This thought occurred to me just this morning: in the Potterverse, why does the Wizarding World celebrate Christmas? Probably because (even if Rowling couldn’t come right out and say it) Jesus was a wizard. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1098 "2011-07-10T15:47:44Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Scarecrow wants a brain…yet he’s the smartest guy in the group who comes up with all the ideas. > Tinman wants a heart, but he’s a sentimental lug. > Cowardly lion wants courage, and he’s the toughest SOB there. > > Duh. Responding to a two year old post. But anyway. As you note, this scene showed that the three characters had been seeking something that they already had. They just needed to realize they had what they wanted. The fourth character was Dorothy. She wanted to go home. But as the final scene of the movie showed, she already was home - she just needed to wake up and realize it. The Wizard was Dorothy’s sub-conscious trying to tell her that Oz wasn’t real. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1099 "2011-07-10T16:11:30Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Forgive me if someone’s mentioned this already. I did search, but didn’t see any mention. > > This thought occurred to me just this morning: in the Potterverse, why does the Wizarding World celebrate Christmas? > > Probably because (even if Rowling couldn’t come right out and say it) Jesus was a wizard. Well, maybe, but this isn’t “obvious” and is open to interpretation. It’s possible that the celebration of Christmas as a winter gift-giving holiday is due to Muggle influence, and that it has no religious or historic significance for wizards. All we really hear about is Christmas parties and gifts. This makes sense, as regardless of the reasons behind the holiday that’s what kids (both the characters and the core audience for the books) would be interested in, but we’re not given enough information to know what if any deeper significance Christmas holds for wizards. While it may seem odd to suggest that a culture would celebrate the birth of a religious or historic figure who isn’t important to them, this is basically the way Christmas is celebrated in Japan. I used to live in Japan, and it was kind of weird to go shopping and see Christmas decorations and hear the Beatles singing “Christmas Time is Here Again” when this holiday is of no religious significance to the vast majority of the Japanese population (Japan is _maybe_ 1% Christian) and has no traditional cultural significance there either. Kids get a present from Santa, and adults may go to a party or out on a date kind of like for New Year’s Eve in the US, and that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1100 "2011-07-10T18:20:52Z")
Didn’t the Potterverse of Magic separate from the regular universe sometime in the Middle Ages? A quick look at the Potter Wikia, says that in 1692, the “International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy was laid down by the International Confederation of Wizards to safeguard the wizarding community from Muggles, and hide their presence from the world at large.” That’s why their “technology” is Middle Age based but with advances not influenced by regular “muggle” science. While most of what we consider “Christmas traditions” only date back a few centuries, Christmas has been celebrated in one form or another for much longer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=56)