# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1181 "2011-11-01T02:02:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The names of the 3 male characters on _3rd Rock From the Sun_ – Tom, Dick, and Harry. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1182 "2011-11-01T22:33:43Z")
I probably listened to “I Fought the Law (and the Law Won)” a few dozen times -in versions by the [Bobby Fuller Four](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ), the Clash, and John Mellencamp before realizing the hook “_robbin’ people with a_ (bam-bam-bam…) _six gun_” had six drum beats. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1183 "2011-11-01T23:17:25Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > I probably listened to “I Fought the Law (and the Law Won)” a few dozen times -in versions by the [Bobby Fuller Four](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXnoLAEUSQ), the Clash, and John Mellencamp before realizing the hook “_robbin’ people with a_ (bam-bam-bam…) _six gun_” had six drum beats. Huh ? I count seven in the version you linked. Pretty sure the \*Clash \*cover also has seven, although there might be the tiniest pause-for-emphasis between the first six and the last (which might suggest the protagonist emptied his gun, then The Law seized the opportunity to retort). ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1184 "2011-11-02T02:47:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Huh ? I count seven in the version you linked. Pretty sure the \*Clash \*cover also has seven,. Heh. The Bobby Fuller version sure enough has seven. I count six on the Clash (which is actually where I noticed the 6 beats). I also count six on the Green Day version and on the original [Crickets](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmlcTVFvic&feature=related)version. And despite my mention of Mellencamp I guess he just used the song as as a take-off for the Authority song, but didn’t record it. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1185 "2011-11-02T07:06:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Huh ? I count seven in the version you linked. Pretty sure the \*Clash \*cover also has seven, although there might be the tiniest pause-for-emphasis between the first six and the last (which might suggest the protagonist emptied his gun, then The Law seized the opportunity to retort). Listening to both the Bobby Fuller and the Clash versions, I think the 7th beat you’re hearing is just the kick drum playing the normal downbeat it does through the rest of the song. > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > I also count six on the Green Day version and on the original [Crickets](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmlcTVFvic&feature=related)version. Interestingly, on top of those six beats, Buddy Holly clearly sings “zip gun”, not “six gun”. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1186 "2011-11-02T15:56:44Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Listening to both the Bobby Fuller and the Clash versions, I think the 7th beat you’re hearing is just the kick drum playing the normal downbeat it does through the rest of the song. > Interestingly, on top of those six beats, Buddy Holly clearly sings “zip gun”, not “six gun”. Continuing the slow stagger toward accuracy: The Crickets version was recorded after Holly’s death, with (according to Wiki) Sonny Curtis (the writer) on guitar, and Earl Sinks on vocals. The [actual Bobby Fuller single](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0sI6eFarFE&feature=related) is more clearly six beats than the live-ish version linked to above. I also hear “Zip gun” in the Crickets’ version. What’s up with that…? As was mentioned in the recent Songwriter Salute thread, Sonny (actual first name) Curtis also wrote the _Love Is All Around_ theme song for the Mary Tyler Moore show. And he wrote the Everly Brothers hit, _Walk Right Back to Me This Minute_. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1187 "2011-11-02T16:08:52Z")
A zip gun is a crude homemade pistol. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1188 "2011-11-02T17:21:12Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > A zip gun is a crude homemade pistol. Yup, and apparently somewhat commonly used by small-time criminals at one time. I suppose if [del]that was[/del] the actual songwriter was in the band in the Crickets version, we can assume that was the correct, original lyric, and that later singers changed it for some reason. Maybe the term “zip gun” had fallen out of use by then, or perhaps Bobby Fuller didn’t know what a zip gun was so either _thought_ he heard “six gun” (Westerns were popular at the time) or changed it deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1189 "2011-11-02T19:36:42Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Maybe the term “zip gun” had fallen out of use by then, or perhaps Bobby Fuller didn’t know what a zip gun was so either _thought_ he heard “six gun” (Westerns were popular at the time) or changed it deliberately. Yeahbut, but since zip guns are normally single shot devices that means there’s no significance to the six hard beats. They just liked the way it sounded.Coulda been three. Coulda been four. Coulda been five. I don’t know how exactly zip gun evolved into six gun, but it was probably the right move. Not only does it give the hook a better context, but it makes the narrator more of an archetypal Western character, rather than a ugly little punk with a homemade gun. It also ties in better with another of the song’s hooks --the rhythm guitar solo-- which has a Western cowboy feel to it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1190 "2011-11-03T02:48:10Z")
I can tell you that the term “zip gun” was in standard usage in the 1950s. While I was alive back then, I was too young to have much to do with them myself. But they kept making appearances in my father’s old _Mad_ magazines of the period. Seem to have been a weapon of choice among juvenile delinquents. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1191 "2011-11-03T03:05:09Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The A.A. Milne poem, later turned into a song, has the line: > > King John put up a notice > Lost, stolen or strayed. > James James Morrison’s mother > Seems to have been mislaid. > > Mother went to the end of the town after being warned not to. It’s obviously a bad place. > > Could “mislaid” refer to being “mis-laid” or raped and disposed of? She has been heard of since, and “if people go down to the end of the town, well what can anyone do?” > > Blame the victim, you cretins. That or perhaps it’s the sound-alike connection between mislaid and slayed. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1192 "2011-11-03T06:06:41Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The A.A. Milne poem, later turned into a song, has the line: > > King John put up a notice > Lost, stolen or strayed. > James James Morrison’s mother > Seems to have been mislaid. > > Mother went to the end of the town after being warned not to. It’s obviously a bad place. > > Could “mislaid” refer to being “mis-laid” or raped and disposed of? She has been heard of since, and “if people go down to the end of the town, well what can anyone do?” > > Blame the victim, you cretins. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That or perhaps it’s the sound-alike connection between mislaid and slayed. Do we know who James James Morrison is? Upon re-reading, it looks to me like King John is calling Mr. Morrison a bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1193 "2011-11-03T07:27:44Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Do we know who James James Morrison is? Mr. Mojo Risin’? ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1194 "2011-11-03T14:25:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I just realized recently that all three actors in the original Broadway lyrics to _Grease_’s “Look At Me, I’m Sandra Dee” (Troy Donahue, Rock Hudson and Sal Mineo) were gay (and closeted at the time that _Grease_ was supposed to be set (and for at least one of them, at the time that _Grease_ was written and produced)). I’m pretty sure that was intentional, given that one of the writer/composers of the show was gay. Otherwise, it’s a pretty incredible coincidence. Sorry for the months-late response, but Troy Donahue was not gay. You’re thinking of Tab Hunter. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1195 "2011-11-03T14:38:18Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > Sorry for the months-late response, but Troy Donahue was not gay. You’re thinking of Tab Hunter. :smack: You’re right, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1196 "2011-11-03T14:59:51Z")
There’s also a very cool big-band/gangster number called [Zip Gun Bop](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH5ekKEnkwM) (YouTube link). The muted trumpet siren is not to be missed! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1197 "2011-11-03T15:48:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Mr. Mojo Risin’? Well, since Milne was English and died in 1956, it’s unlikely. However, upon reading the [entire poem](http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/A.A._Milne/14266), I see that my interpretation is also unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1198 "2011-11-03T17:08:51Z")
My friend Mark recently pointed out the comments made by the Librarian in Pratchett’s series are: “Oh, okay”. I read ook (yes I did) throughout the series. I need a re-read now. ---
**Author:** ![Rain\_Soaked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rain\_Soaked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rain_Soaked)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1199 "2011-11-03T17:27:46Z")
> [@jali](#): > > My friend Mark recently pointed out the comments made by the Librarian in Pratchett’s series are: “Oh, okay”. I read ook (yes I did) throughout the series. I need a re-read now. Given that he says OOK and EEK. I would go with “ook” not “oh, ok”. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1200 "2011-11-03T18:47:54Z")
Given that he’s a [del]mon-[/del] ORANGUTAN, Ook and Eek are thoroughly appropriate. I will have to check if “Oh okay” makes any sense, but I suspect that is projection. He says a lot of complicated things with “Ook ook eek ook eek.” Don’t say the m word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=61)