# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1241 "2012-03-20T20:06:22Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Anyone who’s studied it in school? I studied it at two different schools, both teachers pointed that out. Well, it was never ointed out when I went to school 40 years ago. In the pivotal act.3 scene 1 in Romeo & Juliet, if you read “minstrals” as “menstruals,” it suddenly makes a whole lot of sense. I love Andrew Lloyd Webber’s musicals (shut up!). I really love Phantom of the Opera, and I really, really love the song [Masquerade](http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/thephantomoftheopera/masquerade.htm). So how come I had to watch the 25th anniversary performance with someone who has never seen the show before it was pointed out to me that this song is basically a horrible insult to the Phantom and his mask. I never made that connection. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1242 "2012-03-21T02:52:17Z")
I just learned the title of _My Fair Lady_ is a pun. It’s how Eliza Doolittle would have pronounced “Mayfair Lady.” ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1243 "2012-03-21T03:39:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That and it makes Ophelia sound like a retarded bunny. Was she supposed to be what we’d now called a air-headed bimbo? I thought she was trying to humor an insane person and not set him off. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1244 "2012-03-21T11:31:23Z")
> [@williamweigand](#): > > Does an Earl rule over an early? His bird gets plenty of worms. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1245 "2012-03-21T13:09:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > His bird gets plenty of worms. Does that involve cockolding? ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1246 "2012-03-21T16:35:57Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I knew that House is essentially Sherlock Holmes in a medical setting instead of a crime setting. What I did not realize until today is the pun in the name: Holmes=Homes=House. > > Face. Palm. Dude, it took me forever to get the Sherlock parallels because I always thought it was a reference to Woodrow Wilson and Edward House. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1247 "2012-03-21T19:31:38Z")
House and Holmes also live at the same street address. There are many parallels if you google it. (Watson - Wilson just to name one. Addiction to a drug is another.) I noticed two nights ago that in Batman Returns, just before Batman puts the bomb in the bad guy’s belt (whle the city is being looted), he tosses another bad guy off a bridge. The bad guy does the [Wilhelm Scream](http://youtu.be/cdbYsoEasio). ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1248 "2012-03-21T21:41:29Z")
I have no idea if this has already been posted (because there’s no way I’m going through 20+ pages of thread) but I didn’t realize until I saw some “behind the scenes” features on the DVD that _No Country for Old Men_ takes place in the early 80’s. Of course, I think this is a testament to its story, in that it could take place just about any time within the last fifty years and still be relevant, but when I was watching it I couldn’t help but think “man, how in the hell did he get across the US border so easily?” Well, duh, because it takes place in the early 80’s! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1249 "2012-03-21T23:15:34Z")
Count was not originally a title associated with a particular region. It derived from the Latin comes (by way for the French comte). The word means companion. The legal fiction in the late Roman Empire was that Emperor was an absolute ruler. So all power had to derive from him. Obviously it was not possible for the Emperor to personally run the entire Empire by himself. So the theory was that he could appoint his close associates - his companions - to do things on his behalf. They did not hold any authority on their own behalf - their power was completely derived from the Emperor. A lot of these companions worked in the Imperial capital. But many companions were sent out to run a small region for the Emperor. Early on, the Emperor made sure to make all of these appointments temporary and rotate people around to maintain the idea that it was the Emperor running things and not his local representative. But as the power of the central government declined, many of these local companions did become established as long-term authorities in the region they ran and their authority came to be seen as independent of the far distant Emperor. Comtes began to rule on their own behalf and pass the title down to their descendants. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1250 "2012-03-22T00:27:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Off-topic, but interesting. My wife, Pepper Mill, saw that film with an ex-boyfriend. When the camera started pabnning over the old photographs, he sat bolt upright and said that one of the photographs was from his family. > > I suspect the set dressers bought a bunch of old photographs from somewhere, and that one just happened to be in there. Either that, or else your wife’s ex-boyfriend was a replicant. > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The life of this thread still amazes me. > > How many people catch the sexual innuendo in this scene from Hamlet: > > HAMLET > Lady, shall I lie in your lap? > OPHELIA > No, my lord. > HAMLET > I mean, my head upon your lap. > OPHELIA > Ay, my lord. . > HAMLET > Do you think I meant country matters? > OPHELIA > I think nothing, my lord. > HAMLET > That’s a fair thought to lie between maids’ legs. > OPHELIA > What is, my lord? > HAMLET > Nothing. > > If you don’t get it, put a pause between the two syllables of “country.” I’ve also read that “nothing” was Elizabethan slang for the vagina. (Although I suppose that would be more “Obscure things about a creative work you realize after you read the footnotes in the annotated edition”.) ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1251 "2012-03-22T01:30:36Z")
> [@Maiira](#): > > I have no idea if this has already been posted (because there’s no way I’m going through 20+ pages of thread) but I didn’t realize until I saw some “behind the scenes” features on the DVD that _No Country for Old Men_ takes place in the early 80’s. Of course, I think this is a testament to its story, in that it could take place just about any time within the last fifty years and still be relevant, but when I was watching it I couldn’t help but think “man, how in the hell did he get across the US border so easily?” Well, duh, because it takes place in the early 80’s! :smack: The coin flip scene in the gas station didn’t tip you off? Chigurh: Yes, you did. You’ve been putting it up your whole life. You just didn’t know it. You know what date is on this coin? Proprietor: No. Chigurh: 1958. It’s been traveling 22 years to get here. And now it’s here. And it’s either heads or tails, and you have to say. Call it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1252 "2012-03-22T01:45:39Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’ve also read that “nothing” was Elizabethan slang for the vagina. (Although I suppose that would be more “Obscure things about a creative work you realize after you read the footnotes in the annotated edition”.) I believe “country matters” was also slang for sex. I don’t think this has anything to do with the pronunciation of the word “country”, although I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1253 "2012-03-22T20:23:52Z")
Wiki says [it does](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt) > [@](#): > > By Shakespeare’s day, the word seems to have become obscene. Although Shakespeare does not use the word explicitly (or with derogatory meaning) in his plays, he still plays with it, using wordplay to sneak it in obliquely. In Act III, Scene 2, of Hamlet, as the castle’s residents are settling in to watch the play-within-the-play, Hamlet asks Ophelia, “Lady, shall I lie in your lap?” Ophelia replies, “No, my lord.” Hamlet, feigning shock, says, “Do you think I meant country matters?” Then, to drive home the point that the accent is definitely on the first syllable of country, Shakespeare has Hamlet say, “That’s a fair thought, to lie between maids’ legs.” ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1254 "2012-06-12T01:29:37Z")
You know the Amazon logo has that little smiley swoop at the bottom? Except it’s not a smiley swoop, it’s an arrow…going from A…to Z. 'Cause you know, they have everything… ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1255 "2012-06-12T11:13:20Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > You know the Amazon logo has that little smiley swoop at the bottom? Except it’s not a smiley swoop, it’s an arrow…going from A…to Z. 'Cause you know, they have everything… It wasn’t until I started working with A to D converters that I realized that the name of the Librarian in the old Star Trek episode _All Our Yesterdays_, Mr. Atoz, was Mr. _A to Z_. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1256 "2012-06-13T01:22:36Z")
There are tons of little details and foreshadowings in the song of fire and ice that are simply completely meaningless unless you’re on a reread, and even then it will probably take several times until you begin to catch onto things. Many many spoilers for Game of Thrones will follow so be warned. [spoiler]Ryman Frey to Robb before the red wedding after the little dust up with grey wind outside of the twins: “Let us go in, my father awaits”. On first reading you would probably not even remember Ryman is Walders grandson, not his son. Or that Rymans father died fighting for Robb at the battle of Oxcross. And even if you caught it you would simply assume it was a continuity mistake by the author and not the bone chilling threat it becomes when you know what happens. Also the Hound telling Arya “keep your mouth shut and do what i tell you and maybe we’ll make it to your uncle’s bloody wedding” was actually a bit amusing. Or how everything Walder Frey says falls entirely within the rules of the childhood game the Frey kids were playing at winterfell (saying “mayhap” when something is a lie). The red wedding was shocking the first time, but after five or six readings i am still finding new things to be disturbed about. And for those who think Martin is simply making up stuff as he goes along, this line is from the very first book: “Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name.” A man has to know his name doesn’t he? . Another one that made me slap my forehead when i caught it was Jamie telling Hoster Blackwood “Dead men don’t claim vengeance.” right before he runs off with Brienne. [/spoiler] There are lots of other things i didn’t catch after multiple rereads that i had to have pointed out by others that are just escaping me right now. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1257 "2012-06-13T13:32:57Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There are tons of little details and foreshadowings in the song of fire and ice that are simply completely meaningless unless you’re on a reread, and even then it will probably take several times until you begin to catch onto things. Many many spoilers for Game of Thrones will follow so be warned. > > [spoiler]Ryman Frey to Robb before the red wedding after the little dust up with grey wind outside of the twins: “Let us go in, my father awaits”. On first reading you would probably not even remember Ryman is Walders grandson, not his son. Or that Rymans father died fighting for Robb at the battle of Oxcross. And even if you caught it you would simply assume it was a continuity mistake by the author and not the bone chilling threat it becomes when you know what happens. Also the Hound telling Arya “keep your mouth shut and do what i tell you and maybe we’ll make it to your uncle’s bloody wedding” was actually a bit amusing. Or how everything Walder Frey says falls entirely within the rules of the childhood game the Frey kids were playing at winterfell (saying “mayhap” when something is a lie). The red wedding was shocking the first time, but after five or six readings i am still finding new things to be disturbed about. > > And for those who think Martin is simply making up stuff as he goes along, this line is from the very first book: “Theon Greyjoy had once commented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name.” A man has to know his name doesn’t he? . Another one that made me slap my forehead when i caught it was Jamie telling Hoster Blackwood “Dead men don’t claim vengeance.” right before he runs off with Brienne. [/spoiler] > > There are lots of other things i didn’t catch after multiple rereads that i had to have pointed out by others that are just escaping me right now. Something else that becomes painfully obvious after a re-read of **A Clash of Kings** (book 2)… [Spoiler]Arya has a brief encounter with Elmar Frey, Roose Bolton’s squire. Elmar “liked to boast how he was the son of the Lord of the Crossing, not a nephew or a bastard or a grandson but a trueborn son, and on account of that he was going to marry a princess.” However a few pages later Elmar is not so boastful. “My princess,” he sobbed. “We’ve been dishonored, Aenys says. There was a bird from the Twins. My lord father says I’ll need to marry someone else, or be a septon.” Remember the deal Cat made with the Freys in **A Game of Thrones?** Arya was supposed to marry a Frey. She was the princess that Elmar was going to marry. When Elmar says he needs to find someone else to marry, the Freys’ plans become completely obvious. [/Spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![SprungFromCages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SprungFromCages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SprungFromCages)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1258 "2012-06-13T19:49:36Z")
I loved American History and read all about the Civil War. I never knew Abraham Lincoln was a vampire hunter, until the book came out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1259 "2012-06-14T00:19:39Z")
In _The Princess Bride_, Inigo talking to Vizzini: “I’m going to fight him left-handed. Is only way I can be satisfied. Otherwise, is over too quickly.” I only just now realized that those lines could apply equally well in a different context. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1260 "2012-08-14T20:30:01Z")
So the radio at work is playing “Only the Good Die Young” today. A younger co-worker asks me “Who sings that song. He sounds familiar.” I tell her “Billy Joel.” When he sings “Come out, Virginia” the second time, she says “Cute.” Me: What’s cute? Her: The name. Virginia Me: 😕 Her: Virginia Me: I still don’t get it. Her, exasperated: Virginia. You know? Like in VIRGIN. Me: :eek: Mental note to self: Add to this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=64)