# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1321 "2013-01-27T09:52:05Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Had a friend in college who thought that Sandy’s name was “Sandra Dee” - he’d never heard of the actress. I’ve heard of the actress, but I would have never made that connection. It just seems simpler that she’s pretending to be Sandy. I’d bet that most people think that. Heck, even now, I think it at most was a double meaning. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1322 "2013-01-27T22:21:12Z")
I just had another one this weekend. In We Didn’t Start the Fire, I have "sung"along dozens of times, and was mumbling along to “U2, Syngman Rhee, Payola and Kennedy” when It occurred to me in one of those daydreaming-driving streams of thought. “He really got the chronology of that is way off, most of the song is very careful about that. U2 didn’t get big until decades after that. He must be talking about when they were born, but it’s not like it was news when they were born and all the rest of the song is actual headlines, that is a real contriv…OH goddammit :smack:, it’s about the spy plane and I am moron.” ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1323 "2013-01-27T22:23:54Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Maybe from the bright red “flowers” (I think they’re actually modified leaves) of most ornamental ginger plants? They’re tropical shrubs, but I think they can be house plants in, say, Britain, as well. There is ginger root that is reddish but here in the US, we only see the yellow-rooted variety. I think the connection is tenuous at best but the Brits aren’t likely to give it up any time soon. We Yankees tend to say “strawberry blond”. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1324 "2013-01-27T22:42:45Z")
Actually, a lot of Brits would say that strawberry blonde hair isn’t the same thing as ginger-colored hair. Look at 6:10 in this video: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhLIjlTNSk) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1325 "2013-01-27T23:07:17Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I just had another one this weekend. In We Didn’t Start the Fire, I have "sung"along dozens of times, and was mumbling along to “U2, Syngman Rhee, Payola and Kennedy” when It occurred to me in one of those daydreaming-driving streams of thought. > > “He really got the chronology of that is way off, most of the song is very careful about that. U2 didn’t get big until decades after that. He must be talking about when they were born, but it’s not like it was news when they were born and all the rest of the song is actual headlines, that is a real contriv…OH goddammit :smack:, it’s about the spy plane and I am moron.” I’m glad I read this post all the way through before I replied…About halfway through that second paragraph I started thinking, “It’s about Gary Powers, not Bono!” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1326 "2013-01-28T01:29:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve heard of the actress, but I would have never made that connection. It just seems simpler that she’s pretending to be Sandy. I’d bet that most people think that. Heck, even now, I think it at most was a double meaning. But all the names in the song are the names of performers - Sandra Dee, Doris Day, Annette (Funnicello, of course), Elvis and Troy Donahue. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1327 "2013-01-28T04:14:22Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > No shit, you’re right! Too bad their broth sucks. … whoa! (But yes, come on, Swanson’s low sodium all the way.) ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1328 "2013-01-28T04:38:42Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > But all the names in the song are the names of performers - Sandra Dee, Doris Day, Annette (Funnicello, of course), Elvis and Troy Donahue. Here’s something related that also ties into the thread topic. I didn’t realize it until I read writer/director Scott Miller’s [analysis of Grease’s original stage version.](http://www.newlinetheatre.com/greasechapter.html) But then again, for the most part I’d only known the movie lyrics for Grease and not the stage lyrics. In the stage version, instead of Elvis, Sal Mineo is referenced in the last verse. “No, no, no, Sal Mineo!/I would never stoop that low!” So, the hearthrobs mentioned in the song are Rock Hudson, Troy Donahue, and Sal Mineo. According to Miller, that means that all the men mentioned (though, of course, Rizzo has no way of knowing this) were gay men forced into the closet by the studios. To his mind, this was one of the writers’ shout-outs to the hypocrisy of the Fifties. (But, then again, no one’s really sure about Troy Donahue, are they? He denied it and was with a new fiancee at the time of his death. Maybe Miller was misinformed?) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1329 "2013-01-28T05:20:23Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > Here’s something related that also ties into the thread topic. I didn’t realize it until I read writer/director Scott Miller’s [analysis of Grease’s original stage version.](http://www.newlinetheatre.com/greasechapter.html) But then again, for the most part I’d only known the movie lyrics for Grease and not the stage lyrics. > > In the stage version, instead of Elvis, Sal Mineo is referenced in the last verse. “No, no, no, Sal Mineo!/I would never stoop that low!” So, the hearthrobs mentioned in the song are Rock Hudson, Troy Donahue, and Sal Mineo. > > According to Miller, that means that all the men mentioned (though, of course, Rizzo has no way of knowing this) were gay men forced into the closet by the studios. To his mind, this was one of the writers’ shout-outs to the hypocrisy of the Fifties. > > (But, then again, no one’s really sure about Troy Donahue, are they? He denied it and was with a new fiancee at the time of his death. Maybe Miller was misinformed?) I actually had realized this myself a while ago (at least about Mineo and Hudson) but couldn’t seem to find anything about Donahue that was definite one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1330 "2013-01-28T14:40:08Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > So Melanie knows about Belle’s son. > > Later, when Rhett is making friends with Scarlett’s son (her son from her first marriage, Wade Hampton, was not portrayed in the movie) she asks Rhett how it is that he knows so much about boys. Rhett replies that he is the legal guardian of a boy (I don’t remember the exact wording but he doesn’t cop to being his father) that lives in New Orleans. And that’s why he travels there so frequently. He swears Scarlett to secrecy about it. No, Scarlett asks Rhett why he goes to New Orleans so much, cause local gossip is that he has a sweetheart there who he is going to marry. He tells he goes to see a boy who is his “ward.” > [@](#): > > A]lthough at one point after Rhett marries Scarlett, he does tell her son Wade that Wade is all the son he’ll ever want. That’s right after Bonnie is born. Wade says “Uncle Rhett, you understand little boys.” When Rhett answers in the affirmative, Wade realizes he’s thinking of someone else. He asks “Do you have any other boys?” and Rhett changes the subject by offering Wade a drink (!) to toast his new sister. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1331 "2013-01-28T15:06:35Z")
It just now occurred to me that the N. in Frank N. Furter, of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, is to make it sound like Frankenstein. Yes, I am the stupidest person in the universe. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1332 "2013-01-28T15:23:06Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > For years I understood the title of the movie _Thieves Like Us_ as being about how thieves like us for whatever reason. I thought the same thing about _Spies Like Us_. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1333 "2013-01-28T15:27:34Z")
I bet you guys were really confused when you just started reading _Black Like Me_. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1334 "2013-01-28T15:52:22Z")
So the reason that Bruce Springsteen thinks that he’s born to run is that tramps like him so much. Next we can discuss why mourning becomes Electra. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1335 "2013-01-28T16:33:51Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Sky of blue and sea of green” by addition equals “Yellow” (submarine) cannot be intentional. Although it is a nice observation in a particular critical approach that dismisses authorial intention. Why can’t it be? Traditionally, the color of the sky is blue, and the color of the ocean is also blue. They chose green for a reason, didn’t they? Why not that one? Or, at least, partially that one? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1336 "2013-01-28T16:37:38Z")
Maybe they chose it cause “blue” doesn’t rhyme with “submarine.” One of my favorite lines from _Dharma & Greg_ concerned a statue that they gave to the couple that had sex in the strangest place, which was called “The Duck Award.” When Greg’s straight-laced parents ended up having sex on the steps of the court house, Dharma gave them the statue. MIL: This isn’t even a duck. It’s a goose. Why do you call it the Duck Award? Dharma: Cause Goose doesn’t rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1337 "2013-01-28T16:59:39Z")
Didn’t notice anyone mentioning this - This is actually sort of the reverse; I appeared to be the only one in the theater to get the joke at the time. In “The Incredibles” the frustrated sidekick wannabe who became the villain called himself “Syndrome”. Syndrome essentially means sidekick.:smack: (Literally: to run with) No one else laughed. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1338 "2013-01-28T16:59:54Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > Why can’t it be? Traditionally, the color of the sky is blue, and the color of the ocean is also blue. Not if you live in Liverpool. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1339 "2013-01-28T17:21:04Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > No, that didn’t happen that way in either the novel or the movies. Vito didn’t choose the name “Corleone.” What happened was that the clerk that was checking him in at Ellis Island looked at the badge he had around his neck and saw the words “Vito” and “Corleone.” Corleone was the town that he came from, and the clerk, not reading the badge carefully, assumed that that was last name. (Incidentally, it appears that such a mistake would never really be made at Ellis Island.) I’m not sure if the guy landed at Ellis Island, but I know someone whose ancestor came to America, was asked what his last name was, and the man didn’t understand him and thought he asked where he was from. He answered “Minsk” and that became his last name. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1340 "2013-01-28T19:02:18Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Sky of blue and sea of green” by addition equals “Yellow” (submarine) cannot be intentional. Although it is a nice observation in a particular critical approach that dismisses authorial intention. Yeah, pretty sure that would equal a Cyan Submarine anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=68)