# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1461 "2013-09-27T04:20:00Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > A friend of mine who worked as an engineer for the above-mentioned electricity generating authority, was acquainted with Pratchett via work. I find some rather mean satisfaction in the fact that my friend (knowing nothing then, about his literary aspirations) considered him to be a dork. You needed someone to tell you that a writer of fantasy novels might, in real life, be considered a dork? I mean, I love Pratchett’s books, but I was certainly never picturing him as the world’s hippest dude. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1462 "2013-09-27T07:41:48Z")
> [@carnut](#): > > Really? My ex also worked as an engineer for that electricity generating authority and got along with Mr. Pratchett quite well. He found they could have good discussions about authors they liked and the oddities and frustrations of dealing with others (they were both house hunting at the same time). > > Of course, my ex might take a four sentence exchange to be a deep conversation - but hey, he’s an engineer. I suppose your ex and my friend wouldn’t be one and the same person? (I’d suggest PM-ing, but my lack of computer expertise has meant that I could manage only to become a “Guest” on TSD – full “membership” defeated me – so I don’t think I can do PMs.) This conversation with my friend was some years ago, and the details now escape me. I see to recall him saying that he wasn’t very impressed with Mr. P. as a colleague; but since I – unfortunately – detest Pratchett’s books, this tends to make me (unfairly, I know) have negative feelings about all aspects of the bloke – might have been “hearing from my friend, what I wanted to hear”. > [@Lamia](#): > > You needed someone to tell you that a writer of fantasy novels might, in real life, be considered a dork? > > I mean, I love Pratchett’s books, but I was certainly never picturing him as the world’s hippest dude. As above, with my reply to carnut; and “dork” was perhaps not the best choice of words. I fear my dislike of the books, spills over into a lack of charity and justice on my part, toward the author himself ! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1463 "2013-09-27T20:23:47Z")
I just noticed the devilized “J” in the [NJ Devils](https://plus.google.com/u/0/+newjerseydevils#+newjerseydevils/posts) logo. And I live in the freaking state. And when rewatching the Big Bang episode when Sheldon Cooper’s fantasy world account gets hacked and the person steals everything, including his ostrich, Cooper remarks “Glen was the only bird I liked.” Well, duh. It has been established that he is petrified of birds, so a cyberbird is obviously the only bird he’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1464 "2013-09-27T21:46:39Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Have just found this thread for the first time: can’t resist contributing the following. I can’t stand Pratchett’s works – have tried, and for me they are simply lead-heavy, totally un-funny failed humour. (Many people whom I respect, love the guy’s stuff – but, well, there you go.) I like Pratchett, but feel similarly about Douglas Adams. Many people find the Hitchhiker’s series to be hilarious. I find it mildly amusing in places and largely forced and unfunny. But I wouldn’t use that as a reason to hate the author as a person. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1465 "2013-09-27T22:15:30Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Have just found this thread for the first time: can’t resist contributing the following. I can’t stand Pratchett’s works – have tried, and for me they are simply lead-heavy, totally un-funny failed humour. (Many people whom I respect, love the guy’s stuff – but, well, there you go.) > [@Irishman](#): > > I like Pratchett, but feel similarly about Douglas Adams. Many people find the Hitchhiker’s series to be hilarious. I find it mildly amusing in places and largely forced and unfunny. But I wouldn’t use that as a reason to hate the author as a person. I acknowledge, it’s bad of me to do so; but we’re all sinners, and do things which are wrong, and which we regret, but which It’s hard not to do. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1466 "2013-09-27T22:26:46Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I like Pratchett, but feel similarly about Douglas Adams. Many people find the Hitchhiker’s series to be hilarious. I find it mildly amusing in places and largely forced and unfunny. But I wouldn’t use that as a reason to hate the author as a person. [sub]I thought that was just me.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1467 "2013-09-27T23:27:51Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > I heard what sounded kind of like Tchaikovsky coming from the living room where the kids where watching TV. They were watching . . . Disney?? > > Wow, _Sleeping Beauty_ used Tchaikovsky’s ballet for the basis of their soundtrack. Makes sense. Why did it take me so long to realize that? Coincident with the release of that movie, the TV show _Disneylandp_ presented an epidode entitled “The Peter Tchaikovsky Story”, which gave a very prettified portrait of the composer’s life: [http://www.tv.com/shows/disneyland/the-peter-tchaikovsky-story-186097/](http://www.tv.com/shows/disneyland/the-peter-tchaikovsky-story-186097/) > **["The Magical World of Disney" The Peter Tchaikovsky Story (TV Episode 1959) ⭐...](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0394446/)** > > 30m | Approved So when the movie came out, you kinda couldn’t miss it. Of course, in recent releases and for the videos they didn’t make such a big deal, but I think the episode is on at least one of the DVD releases of _Sleeping Beauty_. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1468 "2013-09-28T01:36:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [sub]I thought that was just me.[/sub] I loved the radio play and the first book but after about halfway through the second book I felt he ran out of steam. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1469 "2013-09-28T03:06:07Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > And when rewatching the Big Bang episode when Sheldon Cooper’s fantasy world account gets hacked and the person steals everything, including his ostrich, Cooper remarks “Glen was the only bird I liked.” Well, duh. It has been established that he is petrified of birds, so a cyberbird is obviously the only bird he’d like. Side note: yesterday, while playing World of Warcraft, I spotted a player character named “Sheldocooper” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1470 "2013-09-28T08:42:54Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Maybe you’re joking but I thought it was originally called Brown Skinned Girl. How does that work? A lot of people dispute the notion that “Brown Eyed Girl” is about anal sex. I agree with them, the crudity of it being about anal sex just doesn’t jibe with the first love theme of the song. I always tended to think it was about a woman who had brown skin as well as brown eyes, and her casual initiation of the narrator into sexuality. Of course, it may have been a sly bit of contrast on van Morrison’s part, but it’s just not necessary or all that convincing to buy into the notion. Much more interesting to think of it as a man ruminating on a fleeting love that nonetheless has deep meaning for him. Similarly, Jackson Brown’s “Running on Empty” being about masturbation is another reductionist interpretation that does the song disservice. It’s clearly about a man who has lost the idealism/passion/drive that he had as a youth but is still driven by the life he leads as a result of those passions. It’s a much more interesting and satisfying interpretation than “masturbating.” YMMV of course, but after you’ve heard a few of these reductionist interpretations, you tend to get cynical about them. Just some buy saying “ah, it’s about masturbation” or “ah, it’s about anal sex” so they don’t have to mess with the more complex meanings. And yes, I know this is a response to posts on the first page of a zombie thread that is thirty pages long, but I thought it would be fun to do a little time dilation here. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1471 "2013-09-28T09:40:26Z")
I have to say, I’ve never heard either of those interpretations for those two songs, for which I am profoundly grateful. I guess making up that kind of stupidity is what bored people did before they could troll on YouTube comments. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1472 "2013-09-28T14:32:10Z")
I just watched **Hannah and Her Sisters** for the first time in years. That’s the one where Woody Allen’s character has a crisis of faith and tries other religions/beliefs. First is Catholicism, and there’s a scene where he comes home with a paper bag and empties it. A crucifix. A Bible. A picture of Jesus. Then a loaf of bread and a jar of mayo. Previously, I’d thought the last two were random items, like the religion store was next to a 7-11 and he didn’t want to make two trips. Now I get it: the _Wonder_ bread and _Hellman’s_ mayonnaise are related to the first three items. If he’s going to be Catholic, or at any rate, not-Jewish, he’ll have to get used to bland food. (As an Italian-American, I find that inaccurate. My very Catholic great-aunt Rosie, for instance, was an epic cook and would have shot any Hostess product that dared cross her threshold. But not all Catholics are created equal.) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1473 "2013-09-29T02:28:55Z")
One that struck me while discussing the scene in question here earlier today… In Red Dwarf Back To Earth, the Boys, at one point, have to track down a fellow named Swallow. Now, BTE is full of Blade Runner references, such as Swallow being based on Hannibal Chew. It wasn’t until I wrote that sentence in the other threat that it struck me… Chew-\>Swallow.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1474 "2013-10-02T15:59:58Z")
A couple having to do with _West Side Story._ I grew up listening to the cast album of WSS and seeing the movie, so naturally there were some things that went over my head as a kid, and even the first time I read the published script. I was too young at first to realize that Tony and Maria slept together after “Somewhere”, although they could only go so far in 1957 (play) and 1961 (movie) in implying it. Furthermore, when Anita arrives at the apartment and realizes Tony has been there, she is described as looking at the bed, then turning to Maria with an accusing look. It didn’t occur to me until much later exactly WHY that look at the bed would have told her the truth…well, at first, I thought it was just the rumpled sheets. Then there’s Anita’s so-called “taunting” scene. Of course, it didn’t occur to me at a younger age that this was an attempted rape (which, again, they could only go so far in implying–other, later productions have gone farther). But there’s also the line “Will you let me pass?” “She’s too dark to pass.” At first, I thought that line meant “we don’t let any Puerto Ricans in here.” It wasn’t until later that I realized it was a pun on “passing for white.” There’s also something in the “Little House” books that didn’t hit me until later–mainly, in the next-to-last one, _These Happy Golden Years._ In it, Laura has a teaching job far away, and is boarding with a couple in a small claim shanty. The wife, Mrs. Brewster, hates life on the prairie and wants to go back East. In the middle of one night, Laura awakes to see Mrs. Brewster brandishing a knife in front of her husband and begging to go back East. At first, I thought she was threatening to kill him, but later on I realized that her line “If I can’t go back home one way, I will another,” meant that she was threatening _suicide._ Matter of fact, I had a little more sympathy with Mrs. Brewster (real name, Mrs. Bouchie) when I learned more about what life could be like on that prairie and realized she was probably suffering from severe depression, brought on by isolation. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1475 "2013-10-02T16:29:16Z")
I’m into puns but sometimes it takes me years to get them. Mental Floss being a play on dental floss only struck me a week or two ago. Also the Diageo PR bustup Arthur’s Day is held on a Thursday, Arthursday. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1476 "2013-10-02T22:43:47Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by Irishman I like Pratchett, but feel similarly about Douglas Adams. Many people find the Hitchhiker’s series to be hilarious. I find it mildly amusing in places and largely forced and unfunny. But I wouldn’t use that as a reason to hate the author as a person. > [@Miller](#): > > [sub]I thought that was just me.[/sub] Nah, me as well. I find it cynical and somewhat contemptuous of its readers too. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1477 "2013-10-03T03:38:36Z")
I don’t know if we can consider the naming of sports teams as “creative work”, but I’ll toss this out there: Until I watched [this video of MC Lars’ “Flow Like Poe”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Z0VynTR84), it had never dawned on me that the Baltimore Ravens NFL team was named in honor of Baltimore’s own Edgar Allan Poe, author of “The Raven”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1478 "2013-10-03T04:22:24Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I don’t know if we can consider the naming of sports teams as “creative work”, but I’ll toss this out there: Until I watched [this video of MC Lars’ “Flow Like Poe”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Z0VynTR84), it had never dawned on me that the Baltimore Ravens NFL team was named in honor of Baltimore’s own Edgar Allan Poe, author of “The Raven”. I came to that same realization (minus the music video) [in January](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15934565&postcount=1292). ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1479 "2013-10-05T01:05:32Z")
Spider Man and Doctor Octopus Eight legs. Realized while reading this thread. Haven’t finished, hope it’s not already listed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1480 "2013-10-05T05:14:49Z")
I just realized something about an old, old Mad parody. It appeared in the early 1960s, and was a parody of the TV western _Bonanza_, called _Bananaz_, featuring a “script” by Lou Silverstone and spot-on caricatures by Mort Drucker. The whole Bonanza crew was there, including Michael Landon as “Little Joe” Cartwright. In the parody, he’s drawn as a virtual midget, and his character is called “Short Mort”. I thought it was just a joke name, with “short” rhyming with “Mort”, which seemed an unlikely name for a character with as common a name as “Joe”. It didn’t hit me until the other day that Silverstone probably took a joke name that had been a running gag among the Madmen (the way, in the Harry Potter parodies they called the game “quidditch” by the name “Squamish”, which is funny because in the 1960s Mad had parodied organized sport by coming up with a wholly imaginary game called “43 man Squamish”, with ludicrous made-up rules. Which, arguably, describes Quidditch as well. It’s really funny because of the similarity of the name of their older parody to J.K. Rowling’s game) and applied it to a Bonanza character. They chose it because it had that “short” in there, so it fit “Little Joe” pretty well. But why would “Short Mort” be a running gag? Because the French slang for orgasm is _le petit mort_, or “the little death”. It doesn’t take a big leap for an American a little knowledgeable about French to turn that phrase into the nickname “Short Mort”, since “petit” means “little” or “short”, and “short Mort” rhymes nicely. So “Short Mort” looks like the nickname of a character which derives pretty transparently from slang for “orgasm”, but isn’t immediately obvious. I’ll bet they were just looking for an opportunity to use that name, and Bonza’s “Little Joe” gave them an excuse to trot out an almost obviously sexual pun and use it in a parody, with a thread of justification. It’s like having a butler address Anthony Perkins’ character as “Master Bates”\* \*A joke using “master Bates”/masturbates really did circulate in the 19th century. Nothing is new under the sun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=75)