# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 85
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1681 "2013-12-15T20:59:14Z")
Nm. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1682 "2013-12-15T21:07:19Z")
That in _Yellow Submarine_, when the Blue Meanie approaches a victim (? who claims he’s blue-ish as a last plea? haven’t seen it for years), he stops and peers at him and say’s “Blue-ish? You don’t _look_ blue-ish,” is a play on the famous “Jewish? [Funny,] You don’t _look_ Jewish.” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1683 "2013-12-15T21:19:33Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Koxinga (if you even remember this thread), I’m gonna have to take issue with your observation about Vladimir and Estragon calling each other “brother” in China on the grounds that “gogo” does not mean brother in Mandarin. You’re confusing it with “gege,” dude. > [@Koxinga](#): > > Yes, I’m sure I’m confusing it. :rolleyes: I bow to your obviously superior of knowledge of the Chinese language, 兄弟. > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > You being sarcastic or serious, 同志? Because it’s not romanized or pronounced as “gogo,” and the tone of my my next response will be decided on whether or not you’re being an ass. That eyeroll is confusing. > [@Koxinga](#): > > You can decide that yourself by answering three questions: (1) when was Waiting for Godot written; (2) when was hanyu pinyin invented; and (3) would Beckett have any sort of obligation to stick to any formal transliteration system whatsoever rather than playing it by ear, if indeed he did want to pepper his play with a couple of Chinese words? > > “同志”, indeed. Thanks, but I can’t claim to be quite that _fab_ulous. > > ETA: Bonus question! > > Not pronounced that way in English, sure. But, > > Q: In what language was Waiting For Godot originally written? Just so people know if they didn’t, French. My dog’s not in this fight, but, having recently seen _Godot_ performed in Yiddish (now _there’s_ a trip), I found out that the script had to be approved by the Beckett Estate, [down to single words.](http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/183886/the-yiddish-spirit-of-samuel-beckett/) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1684 "2013-12-15T22:06:39Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Actually, it’s when Thompson interviews the butler (Raymond) that he tells Thompson that he heard Kane saying “Rosebud” following an outburst after Susan left him. Nobody heard him say it right before he died. The butler explicitly says that he heard Kane say “Rosebud” right before he died. It’s right after the flashback about how Kane reacted when Susan left him. The butler says he heard Kane say “Rosebud” then, and again when he died. I just pulled up the scene on Amazon Prime and here’s the exact dialogue: JOURNALIST: I see. And that’s what you know about Rosebud? BUTLER: Yeah. I heard him say it that other time too. He just said “Rosebud”. Then he dropped the glass ball and it broke on the floor. He didn’t say anything after that, and I knew he was dead. He said all kinds of things that didn’t mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1685 "2013-12-15T22:12:48Z")
Which is why I said, “Kill me”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1686 "2013-12-15T22:26:46Z")
On rewatching the american version of “The Office” not long ago: In the first or second season episode “Booze cruise” Roy finally asks Pam to get married right on the boat and Pam having second thoughts tells him “I don’t want to get married on a boat! i want a real wedding, with dancing!”. Of course many years later Pam and Jim got married on a boat, and then they went and had a fake wedding punctuated by an elaborate dance number. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1687 "2013-12-15T22:27:07Z")
Obviously the Butler is not in the room when Kane dies. He was a damn liar! Of course he was getting a thousand bucks to tell what he knew. His repeating the death scene was a fiction. He WAS NOT IN THAT ROOM! Gaaahhhh. Arguing over Citizen Kane. How pedantic can I become? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1688 "2013-12-15T22:33:03Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Obviously the Butler is not in the room when Kane dies. He was a damn liar! Of course he was getting a thousand bucks to tell what he knew. Maybe he was taking a dump in the _en suite_ can and left the door cracked open. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1689 "2013-12-16T01:30:01Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Obviously the Butler is not in the room when Kane dies. He was a damn liar! Of course he was getting a thousand bucks to tell what he knew. > > His repeating the death scene was a fiction. He WAS NOT IN THAT ROOM! > > Gaaahhhh. Arguing over Citizen Kane. How pedantic can I become? His “Mmnnyyess” is the greatest yes/no on film. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1690 "2013-12-16T02:33:20Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Obviously the Butler is not in the room when Kane dies. It isn’t obvious. The opening scene never shows a full view of the room. The butler doesn’t need to have been in the bedroom to hear Kane anyway, nor does he ever claim that he was in the room. He could have been in an adjoining room or hallway but still close enough to hear Kane say “Rosebud” and then the snow globe falling and breaking. > [@](#): > > He was a damn liar! Of course he was getting a thousand bucks to tell what he knew. > > His repeating the death scene was a fiction. He WAS NOT IN THAT ROOM! There is nothing in the movie to indicate that the butler is lying. Everything he says about Kane’s death is consistent with what we see at the beginning of the movie. The simplest explanation for this, and the one best supported by the movie, is that the butler is telling the truth and heard what he says he heard. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1691 "2013-12-16T04:04:28Z")
I’m inclined to believe that Raymond was in the room (somewhere) to hear Kane’s last word. True, we didn’t see him, but it was a big room and there was probably an echo. And SOMEONE had to switch off the light. Given Raymond’s overall shady vibe (Welles told the actor to play it as if he’d been stealing from Kane for years and had set up a Swiss bank account), I imagine he thought Kane was dead or close enough to it, started rifling around in the drawers for those cuff links he always liked, was startled by Kane’s whisper of “Rosebud…” and the sound of shattering glass, shoved the cuff links back in the drawer and adopted a suitably shocked and grief-stricken look as the nurse rushed in. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1692 "2013-12-16T18:06:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There was a major character who was edited out of the movie. He was supposed to be a mysterious stranger who apparently was arranging events so people would get together and may have had magic powers - essentially a Cupid figure that was supposed to be connecting all the separate stories. But when they were editing the film they felt it was running long and they decided they could cut out this character. > > The character was played by Rowan Atkinson and you can still see him a couple of times but he’s no longer a main part of the story. I have to say I am relieved they didn’t keep all of that. Although I do enjoy the one moment when he helps Sam and Joanna get together. 🙂 And I guess he was doing his best to keep Alan Rickman and Skanky Girl apart. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1693 "2013-12-17T20:27:58Z")
The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia leaves someone’s fate out… Spoilers, I guess… I really don’t feel bad about spoiling things older than I am. The brother comes back to town, meets a friend Andy Wollow in a bar. Andy tells the brother that his wife’s been cheating with Seth Amos, and that Andy himself has also been with his wife. Brother goes to get his gun. Andy goes home. Brother comes back to find Andy already dead. Brother is quickly hanged for the murder he didn’t commit. Singer (who it turns out is little sister to the main character) shares that she killed Andy and also her brother’s cheating wife. So, brother’s dead, Andy’s dead, sister-in-law is dead… what about Seth Amos? You could say the sister doesn’t know about that other infidelity… but the sister’s the one who’s relating the entire story to us so it’d be weird if she doesn’t know that part of the story she tells us. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1694 "2013-12-17T21:43:45Z")
So, I loved that song (_The Nights… Georgia_) and I would go around singing it all the time. When I was 5. Why nobody stopped me, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1695 "2013-12-17T22:06:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, I loved that song (_The Nights… Georgia_) and I would go around singing it all the time. > > When I was 5. > > Why nobody stopped me, I have no idea. Did they at least encourage you to sing “hanged” over “hung” like I have to? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1696 "2013-12-21T04:13:25Z")
I’ve recently linked the Neil Gaiman short story “Other People” on this very board, in the “What is Hell like ?” thread to be specific. I really like that short story, even if I couldn’t really tell you why. Probably one of my favourites of\* Fragile Things\*. I’ve read it a whole bunch, but I never got it. And when I read it again yesterday, I didn’t get it. It’s only this morning in a dramatic flash of insight upon waking up that I \*finally \*understood that the protagonist and the deformed tortured demon going to town on him are one and the same. Hence, the “time is fluid here” leitmotiv. Like, I had understood that the demon was really a man who’d gone through it all himself (which I thought/think was clever), but not that it was literally \*the \*man (which is order of magnitudes more fucked up). ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1697 "2013-12-21T05:07:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, I loved that song (_The Nights… Georgia_) and I would go around singing it all the time. > > When I was 5. > > Why nobody stopped me, I have no idea. When I was 5, I did the same thing with “Darlin’ Corey.” Just the first two lines of the chorus, though. I thought it was a fun “work song” about digging a hole. ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1698 "2013-12-21T07:54:32Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > The title of the comic strip _Hi and Lois_: high and low. Wow, nice spot. I did get “Andy Capp” and “The Lockhorns” without explanation, which not all of my friends did. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1699 "2013-12-21T13:32:08Z")
> [@AppallingGael](#): > > Wow, nice spot. I did get “Andy Capp” and “The Lockhorns” without explanation, which not all of my friends did. What is the joke with those ones? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1700 "2013-12-21T13:38:27Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What is the joke with those ones? If you _lock horns_ with someone, you fight or argue with them. Mr and Mrs Lockhorn were/are always bickering about something. Andy Capp … wears a big cap? :dubious: 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=84) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=86)