# Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117 "2009-07-24T13:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1741 "2014-01-03T19:14:17Z")
I have always heard of Tom and Jerry, but never watched it, so I never knew which was which. While watching a video of it because one of the ice cream places in the mall shows kids stuff it showed a mailbox for Tom the Cat, and it said “Tom Cat” Tomcat. Tom is the cat. I just got that. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1742 "2014-01-03T19:26:33Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I did not make the connection between Alotta Fagina (_ **Austin Powers** _) and Pussy Galore (_ **Goldfinger** _) until I was translating the joke for one of my Russian girlfriends several years after I first saw _ **AP** _. :smack: It rather surprises me that in _Goldfinger_ (published 1959) Ian Fleming got the character name Pussy Galore, past the censor. One theorises that with the P word in this sense being American slang, and Fleming being British and publishing in the UK – those who might have done the forbidding, were oblivious. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1743 "2014-01-03T19:40:51Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > It rather surprises me that in _Goldfinger_ (published 1959) Ian Fleming got the character name Pussy Galore, past the censor. One theorises that with the P word in this sense being American slang, and Fleming being British and publishing in the UK – those who might have done the forbidding, were oblivious. United Artists apparently made some effort to have it changed to Kitty Galore in the movie, but Broccoli and Saltzman (good for them!) were sure to get the film in the can before they could effectively interfere. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1744 "2014-01-03T20:04:35Z")
That the fugue from the fourth movement of Beethoven’s 9th Symphony is an homage, stylistically and meaningfully, to “The Hallelujah Chorus” of The Messiah, and that Beethoven idolized Handel particularly in the last years of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1745 "2014-01-03T20:25:25Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > United Artists apparently made some effort to have it changed to Kitty Galore in the movie, but Broccoli and Saltzman (good for them!) were sure to get the film in the can before they could effectively interfere. Which indirectly led to [one of the best _Jeopardy!_ Teen Tournament moments ever](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNpglfgsKU&t=0m23s). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1746 "2014-01-03T20:29:31Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I have always heard of Tom and Jerry, but never watched it, so I never knew which was which. > [snip] > Tomcat. Tom is the cat. I just got that. :smack: > [@vontsira](#): > > It rather surprises me that in _Goldfinger_ (published 1959) Ian Fleming got the character name Pussy Galore, past the censor. One theorises that with the P word in this sense being American slang, and Fleming being British and publishing in the UK – those who might have done the forbidding, were oblivious. What do you have against cats? 😉 New one from me. The book “Ender’s Game” stars a boy named Andrew Wiggin, who goes by the nickname “Ender”. He’s called that by everyone, but especially his sister, to whom he is very close prior to leaving for the military school. The thing is, he was a third child from a society with strong reproduction limits to 2 children, where he was specifically requested by the government. He was intentionally guided for their military program that starts in childhood and expected to be the “chosen one” to be the military strategist to beat the Buggers (alien enemies) in the expected next confrontation. So it just made sense he was called “Ender”, i.e. “the one to end the war”. So I’m finally reading “Speaker for the Dead” (the sequel), and Ender is reflecting on his identity and his past. And he comments that people don’t realize that Andrew Wiggin now is Ender Wiggin from the past, and that Andrew was nicknamed Ender because when he was born his sister couldn’t pronounce Andrew, so she said “Ender”. :smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1747 "2014-01-03T20:41:16Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > The Online Encyclopedia with No Eyes says both with and without are correct, due to the line being spoken more than once in the film: > > [Cool Hand Luke - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Hand_Luke#Famous_line) Luke says “a failure to communicate” near the end of the movie, but the quintessential version of the line (as spoken by the warden) does not have “a” in it. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1748 "2014-01-03T20:52:58Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > There’s a pet British corny crack, about a person “getting a potato clock” – meaning, “getting up at 8 o’clock”. No backstory about whatever a “potato clock” might be – the pun just “is”. [A potato clock.](http://www.flinnsci.com/store/catalogPhotos/AP1939cat.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1749 "2014-01-04T13:05:31Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Is that the only point of the name “Diagon Alley”? I always thought the name a bit weak and “so-what?”, on the author’s part. Knockturn Alley’s significance, I get – it’s where dark, dodgy, and illicit (“nocturnal”) dealings of the wizarding kind, are carried on (as opposed to the “legit” and above-board stuff in Diagon Alley). It’s maybe a quirk of mine, that wordplay has to be “about” something, for me to find it funny: if it’s pointlessly for its own sake, it strikes me as lame and silly. It’s not just Knockturn=nocturnal; it’s Knockturn Ally = nocturally ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1750 "2014-01-04T15:30:10Z")
In **The Mighty Ducks** , a character named Gordon Bombay is arrested for drunk driving. Gordon’s and Bombay Sapphire are both brands of gin. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1751 "2014-01-04T16:50:34Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I have always heard of Tom and Jerry, but never watched it, so I never knew which was which. > > While watching a video of it because one of the ice cream places in the mall shows kids stuff it showed a mailbox for Tom the Cat, and it said “Tom Cat” > > Tomcat. Tom is the cat. I just got that. There have been a number of fictional Tom / Jerry combos over the past couple of centuries – the cartoon cat and mouse, being the best-known. The first of such, I gather, was created by the British journalist and early sportswriter Pierce Egan (1772 - 1849). Egan wrote, for the journal “Life in London”, which flourished in the 1820s, an ongoing series of tales about the doings in that era, of three young “slackers” who spend their time partying, and attending sporting events – chiefly boxing matches – and swapping awful puns. These three are Corinthian Tom (elegant young man-about-town); Jerry Hawthorne (his rather naive friend up from the country); and Bob Logic (university drop-out and drunk). I initially learned about this apparent first instance of the Tom-and-Jerry “trope”, from the unfailingly educational fiction of George MacDonald Fraser of _Flashman_ fame. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1752 "2014-01-05T03:49:48Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Completely-pointless punning, does truly annoy me. There’s a pet British corny crack, about a person “getting a potato clock” – meaning, “getting up at 8 o’clock”. No backstory about whatever a “potato clock” might be – the pun just “is”. Likewise, the mythical character – or was he a real comedian? – called Nosmo King. A pointless play on “No Smoking”. Such doings have me wanting to scream, “So fucking what !?” I agree! Puns are fun, but they have to be relevant. But I take it a bit farther- they make me want to scream “Sofa King what?” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1753 "2014-01-05T08:37:03Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > Is that the only point of the name “Diagon Alley”? I always thought the name a bit weak and “so-what?”, on the author’s part. Knockturn Alley’s significance, I get – it’s where dark, dodgy, and illicit (“nocturnal”) dealings of the wizarding kind, are carried on (as opposed to the “legit” and above-board stuff in Diagon Alley). It’s maybe a quirk of mine, that wordplay has to be “about” something, for me to find it funny: if it’s pointlessly for its own sake, it strikes me as lame and silly. Thankfully, I missed that it was supposed to be funny. When I moved to Melbourne in '69, there were still a lot of streets that were named literally. Hardware Lane had hardware shops. Market Lane where the market used to be. Hosier lane in the garment district. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1754 "2014-01-05T10:35:16Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Thankfully, I missed that it was supposed to be funny. When I moved to Melbourne in '69, there were still a lot of streets that were named literally. Hardware Lane had hardware shops. Market Lane where the market used to be. Hosier lane in the garment district. And back in the motherland, [Gropecunt Lane](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane) had . . . Well, you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1755 "2014-01-05T12:44:24Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I agree! Puns are fun, but they have to be relevant. But I take it a bit farther- they make me want to scream “Sofa King what?” I like that ! Calls up, in a convoluted kind of way, the one-time “Firkin” chain of pubs in the UK. (Firkin: an old-time measure of liquid – about the content of a small cask.) They were all called the “xxxx and Firkin” – most usually, xxxx was a word alliteratively beginning with the “f” sound: Ferret and Firkin, Pheasant and Firkin, etc. The chain made great play with the similarity of “firkin”, with “fucking” – without ever actually spelling out or voicing the swearword. For me, one of those things which are initially funny – but as often happens, those responsible spoilt the joke by flogging it to death. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1756 "2014-01-05T12:48:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > And back in the motherland, [Gropecunt Lane](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane) had . . . Well, you get the idea. Re the linked article: I attended university at Oxford; but don’t think I was aware of the existence of the city’s Magpie Lane, even under its present-day innocuous name. I certainly didn’t hear then, of its one-time Gropecunt Lane identity. A bit surprisingly: we were certainly an at least averagely dirty-minded bunch, and one would have expected that to be a bit of lore to treasure. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1757 "2014-01-08T00:19:16Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > I wonder how many non-Brits got Spellotape/Sellotape. I wouldn’t have, except I coincidentally heard of Sellotape from other British books. Since I did get it, I rolled my eyes about as hard as **JohnT**. I am a Brit and I don’t see what there is to roll the eyes at. Nor does Wikipedia: > **[Sellotape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellotape#History)** > > Sellotape (/ˈsɛləˌteɪp/) is a British brand of transparent, cellulose-based, pressure-sensitive tape, and is the leading brand in the United Kingdom. Sellotape is generally used for joining, sealing, attaching and mending. > In much the same way that Scotch Tape came to be used in Canada and the United States when referring to any brand of clear adhesive tape, Sellotape has become a genericised trademark in Britain and a number of other countries where it is sold. > Sellotape was originally manufac... [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The name Sellotape was derived from Cellophane, at that time a trademarked name, with the “C” changed to “S” so that the new name could be trademarked. [/QUOTE] What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1758 "2014-01-08T04:28:41Z")
Just that it’s so on the nose. Add one letter to the name for an easy pun = big laffs. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1759 "2014-01-08T08:59:30Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Just that it’s so on the nose. Add one letter to the name for an easy pun = big laffs. Really not seeing the pun. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117/1760 "2014-01-08T11:14:58Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I am a Brit and I don’t see what there is to roll the eyes at. Nor does Wikipedia: > > [Sellotape - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellotape#History) > > What am I missing? I think you might be missing that it’s Spellotape in the Harry Potter books, not sellotape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obvious-things-about-a-creative-work-you-realize-after-the-millionth-time-open-spoilers-possible/504117.md?page=89)