Obvious things about a creative work you realize after the millionth time (OPEN SPOILERS POSSIBLE)

The problem you are dealing with is one of assumed continuity. Is this version of the story directly linked with previous versions, or is it a retake, a reboot, a new unconnected version, a different universe? That is a common problem with series that are carried out over a longer timespan than the characters should be seeing.

Example: the Tom Clancy “Jack Ryan” series. We get the first story, The Hunt For Red October, with Jack played by Alec Baldwin, set in 1984. Next, they shoot Patriot Games, and cast an older Harrison Ford as Jack. The story is set about a decade later, so the aging works and the story sequence works, so it can be assumed to be a continuous story, a continuous character portrayed by a different actor (the “Soap Opera” effect). Follow on with “Clear and Present Danger” with the same actor.

Then they want to film Sum of All Fears, which has a setting later than those other stories (2002), but for a variety of reasons want a younger main character. Ergo, you are left with a discontinuity - How does Jack Ryan who stole a submarine in 1984 get to be a young man again in 2002? Answer? You reboot - the character is Jack Ryan, but in this universe, Jack is just starting his career, so the other stories did not occur for him. You have to agree that continuity is not preserved, that this is a completely new “Jack Ryan” series.

Similar situation is the described Batmans. The Adam West Batman has no continuity to the Micheal Keaton Batman, who has no continuity to the Christian Bale Batman. However, the Michael Keaton Batman is supposed to be the same Batman as Val Kilmer and George Clooney. Those four movies have continuity.

So with James Bond, we see the same issue surface, primarily because of Bond being initiated in the 60’s Cold War and lasting to the new millennium. Somewhere along the line, that continuity is broken, and the “James Bond” we get is a new James Bond in a new universe, not necessarily the same Bond.

However, what makes it more complicated is keeping many of the same actors in their same roles to cover that timeframe. There’s no reason to doubt that Connery, Lazenby, and Moore are the same James Bond in the same continuity. There is some reason to question Dalton as being the same Bond in the same continuity, and that gets more troubling to accept Brosnan as the same continuity.

However, there is a clear reboot with Daniel Craig. This is a new agent at the beginning of his career, set in ~2006, having no relation to the James Bond of the Cold War. It is also stylistically different than preceding Bond movies. The only source of complication is retaining the same actress who was “M” in a couple prior movies. That suggests there is continuity that is not otherwise present.

A similar situation arises with characters like Bart Simpson, who has been a perpetual 10 year old boy for over 20 years. At this rate, he’s almost had more screen time than actual time he could have been 10. Suck it up and ignore it, continuity isn’t the point of the story.

None of which precludes the possibility that “James Bond” was a fictional cover name given to the agent that Daniel Craig plays upon becoming a spy, as opposed to whatever real name he had as an orphan or going into the military. But nothing in the overt text indicates Bond as an alias provided to him, as opposed to “James Beach” that he was briefly styled during Casino Royale to enter the poker game. Then again, Casino Royale explicitly stated that “M” was not a random code letter assigned to the head of Operations Branch, but actually stood for - oh wait, she didn’t let him say it. But that almost certainly is a new creation for this incarnation of Bond.

A similar situation arises with regards to the current TV show, “Nikita”. As I described it in another thread, it draws elements from prior incarnations of Nikita, but is a new dip into the well of Nikitaness. It’s a completely new incarnation, just has a lot of points of overlap. It is not meant to be continuous with any prior incarnation, such as the Peta Wilson version.

I almost started a brand new thread on this topic, but since this thread has been resurrected yet again (the SDMB ought to grant it a special “Jason Voorhees” award), I’ll chime in…

Just watched the Alfred Hitchcock Hour version of the Monkeys’ Paw on Hulu. I’ve seen it several times (maybe now a million, but several dozen), but not in many years. During the opening scene, the party with the gypsy fortune teller.

The camera pans around the assembled guests, all of whom are paired off in couples, seated next to each other, or girls on guys’ laps. All very cozy. During it, the camera passes over a pair of guys seated next to each other. One of the guys hands the other one a cocktail, and his “friend” smiles appreciatively. It only just dawned on me that the two guys were a gay couple!

I suppose they were thrown in there to signify that this is a crowd of decadent, morally deviant, jet-setting hedonists. Still, it was kind of a surprise to see a network TV show from this era include even a passing glimpse of “teh gays.”

Actually, it’s from the original novels, where M is named as Admiral Sir Miles Messervy. It’s actually inspired by the real founder of MI5, Mansfield Cumming, who was known as C.
It is debateable whether Bernard Lee’s M and Robert Brown’s M are the same person. Certainly M is a codename that has been transferred to another person.

I have the same theory as Superhal. I don’t know his reasoning, but mine comes primarily from reading between the lines of the pilot, where Cartman explains his hatred for rainbows. “Hey! Get outta my ass you stupid rainbows!” When Stan corrects him on what rainbows are, and asks Cartman to explain himself, Cartman refuses to discuss it further.

Then there’s the alien anal probing, proven by the telescoping satellite dish that comes out of Cartman’s rainbow-hole. There’s a long history of suggesting that alien anal probe experiences are manifestations of repressed abuse.

It’s a bit of a stretch, but not so much for a show with talking poo, a pot-smoking towel, and Satan as Saddam’s “bottom”.

What details from within the show made you reach your conclusion?

More about The Incredibles, sorry.

Even after watching it for the umpteenth time, I couldn’t figure out why Edna Mode didn’t tell Mr. Incredible that there was a homing beacon attached to his new suit, but she told Helen (with the result that Bob was trapped by the sticky expanding beanbags). Was it a plot hole? But I realized after the umpteenth and one time, when Helen realizes Bob has been fired and Edna smugly offers the homing beacon controller to her: “So you don’t know where he is. Would you like to find out?”

Edna did this on purpose. She figured out Bob was having a mid-life crisis and skulking around doing hero work without Helen’s knowledge, and she set Bob up. No wonder she was so disgusted when all Helen could do was boo hoo about it.

Also, as someone mentioned in another thread: Parr = Average. Never got that before either.

Yes, there has to be. And it doesn’t make sense, since we see Roger Moore mourn the death of his wife, which happened to a different actor playing the same character.

:confused:

USA has a new show out called Fairly Legal. The show is about a lawyer who now does mediation, rather than being a practicing attorney. She quit being a lawyer because it’s about taking sides, and having a winner and a loser. They make a big deal out of “with mediation, everyone can win”.

I was watching the show the other day, and it just dawned on me the play on words of legal and fair in the title.:smack:

I just realized that the album Ice Cream Castles, by Morris Day & The Time, was basically a parody album. When I was 13 I thought it was a documentary of how to get chicks. (link to a poorly acted fan vid)

“Sexiness to the left of you, Sexiness to the right.. It’s all about the pimp sandwich tonight!”

Wikipedia to the rescue:

The novels make it extremely clear that James Bond is his given name, not a name given to him (so to speak).

The OP thanks you.

I’ve listened to the lovely holiday ditty Something Must Be Wrong With My Mistletoe, and love the puns and word play. I got the “senses” part of “I’m about to lose my franken-senses” immediately, but it took me about a hundred hearings before I realized the “franken” part sounds a lot like like that other “f-word.”

Well, there’s also an adult-oriented magazine (or was, anyway) called Barely Legal. Not that there’s necessarily a connection, but who knows?

Maybe the original Bond was KIA (or sent to Alcatraz on trumped up charges) and his successor agents have been given his name as both a code word and a tribute.

Okay, I was wrong. But, and I know this was a different series, but in the song “Secret Agent Man”, how do you reconcile They’ve given you a number/And taken away your name?

Also, that leads to another “obvious thing” that may be wrong. Mr. Rilch thinks that the character Freddie Fredrickson in That Thing You Do!, the guy who sings “Mr. Dowwwwwntowwwwwn”, is supposed to be Johnny Rivers. (Who sang “Secret Agent Man”.) Perhaps.

Well, no matter what the original intentions were, how could the Bond series make sense otherwise? You mean the same guy who was battling communists 50 years ago is still around looking young as ever, now battling Rupert Murdoch or whoever? Or pls tell me how I’m supposed to reconcile this in my mind.

It’s magic.

That was the problem with the Pierce Brosnan era (well, one of the problems). They were explicitly referring to him as a “Cold War Relic” and the like, but Brosnan was too young to be the same Bond from From Russia With Love, unless you fudge the years a bit.

However, the Daniel Craig reboot has fixed that. Although they did carry over the actress playing M, that’s the only carryover from the prior series, and she only had a couple movies in that role anyway. There’s no explicit connection to the prior incarnation, just kept the idea of the woman in charge of the Operations Branch of MI6 and kept the same actress in the role. So from here forward, none of the Bond movies have any connection to prior Bond movies.

Well, yeah. I mean, back in the '30s, he got a whole chestful of anti-aging refreshment poured on him from his son’s Holy Grail, right?

The same as with ANY long running series.