# Occupation: Student. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 2, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560 "2008-08-02T01:01:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![unstrung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a698b9/32.png) [@unstrung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unstrung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/81 "2008-08-06T02:00:37Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] No. How hard you work doesn’t matter. I have no doubt that many students do work very hard. I’m freakin’ _surrounded_ by students and I love it that way. Some who aren’t gifted, mostly with a good memory, have to work harder than others. But if you are a student, and work as a “barista” at starbucks, then your occupation would be “barista”. [/QUOTE] Hmmm. Then what would _my_ occupation be? I described my situation several posts ago… ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/82 "2008-08-06T02:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=unstrung] Hmmm. Then what would _my_ occupation be? I described my situation several posts ago… [/QUOTE] Oh, that’s easy. You’re a [teaching assistant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher%27s_assistant). You used to be called a _teacher’s_ assistant, but I suspect some didn’t like the possessive sound of that. Can’t blame them, really. ---
**Author:** ![unstrung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a698b9/32.png) [@unstrung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unstrung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/83 "2008-08-06T02:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Oh, that’s easy. You’re a [teaching assistant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher%27s_assistant). You used to be called a _teacher’s_ assistant, but I suspect some didn’t like the possessive sound of that. Can’t blame them, really. [/QUOTE] But I thought that didn’t count as an occupation unless I was getting paid - as I mentioned, I receive no paycheck. Try again? ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/84 "2008-08-06T06:34:12Z")
mangeorge, first, I am not a student nor do I play one on TV. The difficulty is that “unemployed” is a term of art. (A “term of art” is a word used in a very particular, usually very well-defined sense by those people for whom the subject is their business or field of work or study). Now, for “unemployed”, whose field of work would that be? Well, in the US it’s the Labor Department, in particular, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who [say](http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm) : > [@](#): > > Who is counted as unemployed? > > Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities: > > Contacting: > An employer directly or having a job interview; > A public or private employment agency; > Friends or relatives; > A school or university employment center; > Sending out resumes or filling out applications; > Placing or answering advertisements; > Checking union or professional registers; or > Some other means of active job search. > > Passive methods of jobsearch do not result in jobseekers actually contacting potential employers, and therefore are not acceptable for classifying persons as unemployed. These would include such things as attending a job training program or course or merely reading the want ads. So to be unemployed, a person has to meet three tests. They have to be: Not working, and Looking for work, and Available for work. Everyone else is either employed, or “not in the labor force”. So students, or moms, are very definitely not “unemployed”. They are simply not in the labor force. Now the question “Occupation” on a form is asking a larger question than “Are you in the labor force”. For example, “retired” is as valid an answer as “carpenter”. So is student, or mother. And none of them is unemployed. Me, I have no “occupation”. My last four jobs, in chronological order, were three years as a construction manager for a multi million dollar resort project in Fiji, the summer as a sport salmon fishing guide on the Kenai River in Alaska, six months on the single-handed design and construction of a high end bedroom addition to a house in Hawaii, and currently CFO for a multi-million dollar company in the South Pacific. What is my “occupation”? And when I’m between jobs … am I “unemployed”? Now when I first entered the labor force, I liked short-term work. But I was often unemployed. I didn’t like it. It entailed a lot of worry and uncertainty. But one day, I had a strange insight, and I adopted a new motto, which was: [QUOTE=intention] Retire Early … … And Often [/QUOTE] And since that day, I’ve never been unemployed when I’m between jobs. I’m retired. Sure, make me a good enough offer, I’ll come out of retirement in an instant, that’s how I got the job I have now … and when I’m done with my current job, I’ll retire again. So at the moment, I’m employed, and about a year from retirement, with no unemployment in sight. My best to all, w. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/85 "2008-08-06T12:53:37Z")
[QUOTE=unstrung] But I thought that didn’t count as an occupation unless I was getting paid - as I mentioned, I receive no paycheck. Try again? [/QUOTE] No need for another try. Maybe I misunderstood “compensation” and “free” in exchange for services. ---
**Author:** ![unstrung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a698b9/32.png) [@unstrung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unstrung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/86 "2008-08-06T14:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] No need for another try. Maybe I misunderstood “compensation” and “free” in exchange for services. [/QUOTE] No, I’m pretty sure you didn’t. In fact, you made a point of telling us exactly what does and doesn’t count as gainful employment in this post: [QUOTE=mangeorge] [QUOTE=Green Bean] Perhaps. But it’s a different question. But what does “gainful” mean, then? It doesn’t necessarily mean “money.” [/QUOTE] Sure it does. It means money, or those things we want money for. [/QUOTE] So, like I said, try again? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/87 "2008-08-06T15:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=unstrung] No, I’m pretty sure you didn’t. In fact, you made a point of telling us exactly what does and doesn’t count as gainful employment in this post: So, like I said, try again? [/QUOTE] I’ll re-try: I think we’re somehow going in circles. I had to go back and refresh my mood in that posting. Anyway, those things you speak of as rewards for your efforts are surely included in things “we want money for” in the linked reply. Compensation, just as you said. ---
**Author:** ![unstrung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a698b9/32.png) [@unstrung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unstrung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/88 "2008-08-06T16:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] I’ll re-try: I think we’re somehow going in circles. I had to go back and refresh my mood in that posting. Anyway, those things you speak of as rewards for your efforts are surely included in things “we want money for” in the linked reply. Compensation, just as you said. [/QUOTE] How is the university letting me take free classes a “thing I want money for”? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/89 "2008-08-06T16:14:02Z")
[QUOTE=unstrung] How is the university letting me take free classes a “thing I want money for”? [/QUOTE] I assume **mangeorge** ’s logic (and, in this case, I understand it) is that those are classes you would normally pay to take, hence classes are a thing you want money for. Anyhow, I was a barista when I went to college, and, if you asked me, my occupation was most certainly “student.” ---
**Author:** ![unstrung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a698b9/32.png) [@unstrung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unstrung)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/90 "2008-08-06T16:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I assume **mangeorge** ’s logic (and, in this case, I understand it) is that those are classes you would normally pay to take, hence classes are a thing you want money for. [/QUOTE] That’s the way I read it too, but I didn’t want to put words in his mouth. Seems like that would be more a “thing they would want my money for”. But either way - if we’re agreeing that compensation doesn’t have to be in monetary form, then I really don’t see the problem with “student” as an occupation. Students study, write papers, take exams, etc (their Work) in return for education and a degree (their Compensation). Both education and a degree are things that are clearly worth money, so what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/91 "2008-08-06T18:02:30Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] No. How hard you work doesn’t matter. I have no doubt that many students do work very hard. I’m freakin’ _surrounded_ by students and I love it that way. Some who aren’t gifted, mostly with a good memory, have to work harder than others. But if you are a student, and work as a “barista” at starbucks, then your occupation would be “barista”. [/QUOTE] My point was not that I work harder as a med student than I did as a college student. It was that as a college student I my education consisted of going to class. As a medical student I am actually part of the labor force of the hospital. This year 4th of July happened to fall between student rotations so they had to do 1 of the 2 busiest trauma weekends of the year with no student labor. The paid staff was _very_ glad to see the new crop of students when we arrived on July 7 and told us so repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupation-student/458560/92 "2008-08-06T18:55:45Z")
[QUOTE=pendgwen] My point was not that I work harder as a med student than I did as a college student. It was that as a college student I my education consisted of going to class. As a medical student I am actually part of the labor force of the hospital. This year 4th of July happened to fall between student rotations so they had to do 1 of the 2 busiest trauma weekends of the year with no student labor. The paid staff was _very_ glad to see the new crop of students when we arrived on July 7 and told us so repeatedly. [/QUOTE] Sure they appreciate your work. So do I. I’m sure it’s a valuable experience for you. I watch “House”. I know how it works. 😉 \