# Occupational surnames: why is "Taylor" the only one that's spelled "wrong"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399 "2018-05-18T14:14:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/41 "2018-05-19T14:31:02Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > What is the MOST RECENT occupation to have people named after it? [Leo Spaceman](http://30rock.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Leo_Spaceman) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/42 "2018-05-19T14:42:32Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You’re not born a tailor or a cobbler, either. And while there were places where you could be born the equivalent of a knight (as that had become an inheritable title), a duke or even a king, often the equivalent lastnames refer to people who were part of their households. Yes. Cf. Martin Luther King. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/43 "2018-05-19T15:06:55Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Wainwright from Wagon Builder A related name, Cartright. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/44 "2018-05-19T15:27:04Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > And another: > > Clark from clerk It’s pronounced “clark” in Britain, so it makes sense. > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Is Tyler “the same name” (with the same meaning) as Taylor? I think it is but not sure. I believe Tyler is “tiler,” someone who lays tiles. > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I think another with a significant-looking spelling difference is Baxter. It’s literally Bake-ster, right? “-ster” is a feminine form of “-er” (but didn’t necessarily mean a woman) so Baxter, Brewster, Webster … spinster, punster … > [@Shakester](#): > > Engineer, maybe. There are a bunch of Indian surnames that are English occupations. They’re artefacts of a law that people had to have surnames - many simply adopted their profession’s English language name. > > [Farokh Engineer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farokh_Engineer), for example. > [@Shakester](#): > > Here’s a few more… > > [Ardeshir Reporter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeshir_Reporter) > > [Nari Contractor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nari_Contractor) > > [Gary Lawyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lawyer) Rajesh Pilot Also, I’ve heard tell of … Shipchandler Bottleopenerwallah ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/45 "2018-05-19T15:36:36Z")
> **[\-ster | Meaning of suffix -ster by etymonline](https://www.etymonline.com/word/-ster)** > > \-STER Meaning: "a person who ...") without regard for gender.The genderless agent noun use apparently was a broader… See origin and meaning of -ster. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/46 "2018-05-19T15:43:48Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > What is the MOST RECENT occupation to have people named after it? [Gary Superman](http://m.legacy.com/obituaries/peninsulaclarion/obituary.aspx?n=gary-superman&pid=182991757&referrer=0&preview=false) ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/47 "2018-05-19T15:46:55Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Others: > > Foster from forester. > . How about Fo **rr** est? ---
**Author:** ![MrFloppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@MrFloppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFloppy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/48 "2018-05-19T16:01:19Z")
I had a Tailor in my London school class in the 70s. He was of (East) Indian decent. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/49 "2018-05-19T16:21:17Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Why do you see people named Shoemaker but never anyone named Cobbler? > > Everyone with the last name “Knight” can’t literally have been actual knights, because you can’t just be born as a knight, you have to earn that title, so who was the first to adopt that name? Some poser? I think it’s unwarranted to assume that how common a name is now is a guide to how common it was in the past. After all, at the time English surnames developed, farmer was overwhelmingly more common as an occupation than smith, but now Smith is far more common than Farmer. There are a couple of things at work here. One is that over time, surnames undergo a “random walk” in terms of commonness. Just on the basis of chance, people with the name Smith may have a lot more children than those with the name Farmer. Simply due to random processes, one name can become much more common as time goes on while others may die out. Second is the value of the name in distinguishing people or in terms of prestige. When everyone was a farmer, the name Farmer didn’t distinguish them so a short farmer would be called John Small rather than John Farmer. However, there might not be more than one Smith in a village (but every village would have one), and Smith was a high-prestige occupation, so that if you said John Smith everyone would know who you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/50 "2018-05-19T16:54:20Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I know that the English language wasn’t standardized until relatively recently. English is standardized? Well, I guess it can be understood through tough thorough thought, though. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/51 "2018-05-19T16:56:24Z")
I bough to the master! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nathanial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Nathanial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathanial)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/52 "2018-05-19T17:19:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think it’s unwarranted to assume that how common a name is now is a guide to how common it was in the past. After all, at the time English surnames developed, farmer was overwhelmingly more common as an occupation than smith, but now Smith is far more common than Farmer. I remember this coming up when we were taught about the “professions as last names” things in school— why aren’t more people named Farmer, something that must have been one of the most common occupations? The explanation given was that “Farmer” as an occupation didn’t denote someone who raised crops or cattle, but actually something more like a tax collector, and therefore not a super common position. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/53 "2018-05-19T18:19:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > There are a couple of things at work here. One is that over time, surnames undergo a “random walk” in terms of commonness. Just on the basis of chance, people with the name Smith may have a lot more children than those with the name Farmer. Simply due to random processes, one name can become much more common as time goes on while others may die out. This is known as a [Galton-Watson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TruSnU5tQeY) process. The link shows how some branches of a tree can die out while others become very common strictly due to random processes. (This said, there are problems applying this to surnames, since new surnames may be created or adopted, and others discarded, and this may depend on the character of the name rather than random factors.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/54 "2018-05-19T18:38:39Z")
With “farmer”, you’re also going to find that when surnames were becoming common in England, a good number of people doing farm work were serfs. And as serfs, they did whatever the Manor Lord needed to have done on the property, even if farming tasks took up the most time. “Farming” might not even have been considered a profession, since it’s what most people did. Calling someone “Tom the Farmer” didn’t tell you much of anything about him. OTOH, if you’re name is Jack Bauer, everyone knows you’re no farmer, but you’re the most bad-ass guy in the neighborhood. (Bauer = farmer in German.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/55 "2018-05-19T18:44:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OTOH, if you’re name is Jack Bauer, everyone knows you’re no farmer, but you’re the most bad-ass guy in the neighborhood. (Bauer = farmer in German.) Which is related to _boor_, originally a peasant or farmer, which became synonymous with a rude and uncultured person. Likewise, the South African Boers take their name from the Dutch word for farmer. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/56 "2018-05-19T18:46:07Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Everyone with the last name “Knight” can’t literally have been actual knights… > [@MrDibble](#): > > One has more prestige as an occupation, no doubt - shoemakers made shoes, cobblers just fixed them… And if surnames representing prestige professions are overrepresented in the population, it may not be just that people tend to exaggerate their status. It might be because men with genuine high social status had an unusually large number of offspring who inherited the name. When surnames pass down the male line, their inheritance follows the same pattern as the Y chromosome. So the process could be analogous on a less extensive scale to the fact that about 8% of men across a huge swathe of Asia have a similar Y chromosome, putatively that of Genghis Khan. > **[Descent from Genghis Khan | DNA evidence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_Genghis_Khan#DNA_evidence)** > > Scientists have speculated about the Y-chromosomal haplogroup (and therefore patrilineal ancestry) of Genghis Khan. > Zerjal et al. (2003) identified a Y-chromosomal lineage haplogroup C\*(xC3c) present in about 8% of men in a region of Asia "stretching from northeast China to Uzbekistan", which would be around 16 million men at the time of publication, "if \[Zerjal et al's\] sample is representative." The authors propose that the lineage was likely carried by male-line descendants of Genghis Khan, ... ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/57 "2018-05-19T18:51:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This guy, [Phillip Sherman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sherman), is my 8-th great grandfather, and if you look at his signature on the Portsmouth Compact, he spells it “Shearman” which tells you about the ancestral occupation. > > He’s got about a bazillion descendants, including the Bushes of presidential fame, so I’m not giving anything away about myself. 🙂 Respect! FWIW, my great grandfather was not allowed to have a legal surname, just Son of Abraham from That Shithole Stetl Somewhere. In my immigrant family (I’m first generation American) and most everyone else’s, a sort of respect was always shown to “A Real Yenkee”–any Jew actually born here, comfortable in the culture, and purified of all old-world problems. You are as real as it gets. (Plus I looked up the Portsmouth Contract.) ETA: On the other hand I’m not named Cohen–a professional title-- (“Priest”) and its variations. Then I could put on dog.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/58 "2018-05-19T19:27:13Z")
If it’s any consolation, he was, like most of the first English settlers in Rhode Island, a refugees from the Massachusetts colony, kicked out for not toeing the Puritan religious line. I guess they should be thankful they weren’t hung as witches. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/59 "2018-05-19T22:59:59Z")
Eisenhower = iron hewer, literally, going by Germanic cognates. -ster is related to Sanskrit strī, ‘woman’. Natalie Merchant, no relation to Ismail Merchant. Natalie’s father came from Sicily with the original name Mercante (same meaning). ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399/60 "2018-05-20T01:19:46Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Others: > > Faulkner from falconer. > … > > Languages, and spellings, evolve. Get used to it. Falconer to Faulkner, Fortner, Folkner, Forkner, Falk (at least- there may be more) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupational-surnames-why-is-taylor-the-only-one-thats-spelled-wrong/814399.md?page=4)