# Occupy (insert name of city here) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182 "2011-10-29T13:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/41 "2011-10-31T01:25:10Z")
I think **John Mace** provided a nice summary of the whole thing. For some, there does seem to be general anger at “the man”. But I think the majority, including the older people who are showing up in growing numbers, are protesting the fact that it seems like the people who wrecked the economy not only never got their asses handed to them, but they are being rewarded. You can see the movie **Inside Job** and perhaps, if you are so inclined, experience a little of this frustration. I think a lot of the younger people are there because they indeed feel that they have been wronged or cheated. I don’t know if I agree that they have been “wronged” per se…I don’t believe anyone is entitled to anything–American Dream or whatever. But I also see the enormous ceiling they are up against, and I know _they_ did not put it there. I go to work every day and see co-workers in their late 50s and 60s, just barely hanging in there mentally. They aren’t going anywhere because they’re trying to recoup lost investments; who can blame them? So the normal “cycle of life” isn’t happening. Folks who would be moving up in the ranks are stagnating where they are, and new folks aren’t being ushered into the entry-level. These new folks are wiping down tables and delivering pizzas and worrying about how they can ever get a “real” job when “real” jobs aren’t hiring. And then once the “real” jobs ARE hiring again, they know they will be competing against their younger siblings who will be graduating college with more optimism and malleable brains, laid-off forty- and fifty-somethings who have skills and managerial experience, AND the best and brightest of their own peer group. They feel hopeless. And I don’t blame them. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/42 "2011-10-31T03:39:53Z")
Some of the occupiers have just graduated college and have a tuition mortgage to deal with. College rates just go up ,up and up. It is way overpriced now. They see no jobs and if they get one the salaries are dropping, the benefits are evaporating and there is no security at all. It is not a pretty picture. The majority are without health coverage of any kind. It is unnerving to be without it. In Detroit the neighborhoods are deteriorating. There are many foreclosed homes with busted windows and knee high grass . Schools suck. Inner city kids are expected to study hard so they can be a more educated unemployed person. You are deluding yourself if you think they don’t believe that. They have given up hope. There was supposed to be help from the government to stop foreclosures. It has not come. Bankers have stolen zillions and live in gated communities . They are thumbing their noses at the idiots who let them get away with what they did. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/43 "2011-10-31T13:04:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: You can’t possibly be ignorant about that. I just thought that maybe “organize” actually meant organize. A producer creating a scene for the cameras is a bit short of that. How many NPR folks have been fired to date… [two](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2011/10/28/another-public-radio-employee-canned-occupy-activism)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/44 "2011-10-31T14:14:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The timing sucks. The movement started just before winter. [shrug] It really was kinda spontaneous. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/45 "2011-10-31T14:16:25Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I just thought that maybe “organize” actually meant organize. Well, now you know better. Certainly Fox organized the Tea Party protests to a far more meaningful extent than the remnants of ACORN have had to do with OWS. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/46 "2011-10-31T14:29:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, now you know better. Certainly Fox organized the Tea Party protests to a far more meaningful extent than the remnants of ACORN have had to do with OWS. That’s funny … you have one anecdote over 2 and half years and I have two over about that many months. Plus I referred to NPR and you tried to put ACORN in my mouth. Intellectually dishonest much??? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/47 "2011-10-31T15:03:03Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I just thought that maybe “organize” actually meant organize. > > A producer creating a scene for the cameras is a bit short of that. > > How many NPR folks have been fired to date… [two](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2011/10/28/another-public-radio-employee-canned-occupy-activism)? So, two people were fired from NPR for attending OWS protests. How many people [were fired from Fox](http://mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025)? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/48 "2011-10-31T16:13:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] It really was kinda spontaneous. So. It is still winter. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/49 "2011-10-31T16:23:26Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > How did Fox News organize the Tea Party movement? Obviously when only one media outlet is in any way sympathetic to their positions you can suggest an indirect organizing force. > > How does that compare to all of the media outlets that are in sympathy with the Occupiers? The tea baggers were sponsored and covered by Fox and Rupert Murdoch. They were financed by the Koch bros. They were organized by Dick Armey who assisted them financially too.. They have been helped by Americans for Prosperity, Freedom works and other right wing organizations. The Repubs saw the few tea baggers as a group that would help them. So they exploited the hell out of them. As usual, the Dems don’t get it when a movement drops in their laps. The Occupiers should be helped by the Dems. But Occupy movements consider themselves non political. So it would not be easy to become part of them.But the Dems could try. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/50 "2011-10-31T21:06:13Z")
Drove by Occupy San Jose this morning. San Jose just gets no respect. We only had maybe a dozen protestors with a few tents in front of City Hall. But that’s San Jose for you. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/51 "2011-11-01T00:12:18Z")
It’s clear the only force we have left to turn to, the only justice that will work for the good of all mankind, is the group _Anonymous._ Quick, someone flash the Anonymous Signal beyond the skyline! Or call them up on the internet tube, or something… or does some guy have a beeper? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/52 "2011-11-01T00:28:46Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > That’s funny … you have one anecdote over 2 and half years and I have two over about that many months. > > Plus I referred to NPR and you tried to put ACORN in my mouth. > > Intellectually dishonest much??? Sorry, I’ve seen a lot of board-chatter (not here, but it all runs together) lately about ACORN being behind OWS . . . News to me ACORN still exists . . . What, you were saying **NPR?!** Well, that’s ten times as silly, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/53 "2011-11-01T00:40:59Z")
Nobody believes ACORN still exists. They should know better. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/54 "2011-11-01T18:39:04Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > It’s clear the only force we have left to turn to, the only justice that will work for the good of all mankind, is the group _Anonymous._ Quick, someone flash the Anonymous Signal beyond the skyline! Or call them up on the internet tube, or something… or does some guy have a beeper? [www.4chan.org](http://www.4chan.org) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/55 "2011-11-01T19:25:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > It’s clear the only force we have left to turn to, the only justice that will work for the good of all mankind, is the group _Anonymous._ @Wall Street: tits or GTFO. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/56 "2011-11-01T19:50:53Z")
Another data point on OWS effectiveness: Today BofA reversed course and decided it will [not implement the $5 fee it planned for debit card use](http://mediaroom.bankofamerica.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=234503&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1624356&highlight=). At least [one pundit](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/are-big-banks-feeling-pressure-from-occupy-wall-street/2011/11/01/gIQA4OhmcM_blog.html) sees this as a potential victory for OWS–if only because OWS has changed the prevailing attitude regarding bankers. Quoting one (anonymous) bank official: > [@](#): > > “It’s all connected,” the official said. “There are a lot of issues out there that have added to the conversation. If you take a lot of customer complaints, and you add on to it something along the lines of the protest, it’s amplified the concerns. From our perspective it has clearly amplified things. It has amplified the concerns our customers have. It’s heightened the conversation. It has impacted all the banks.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/57 "2011-11-01T19:58:54Z")
I don’t know. Netflix just did something similar, and they didn’t need OWS to prod them. Don’t think for a moment that the bankers aren’t scheming for the next best way to make more $$ off the consumers. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/58 "2011-11-01T20:10:05Z")
The rule of law applies to all citizens, not just the 99%. We need to start the prosecuting: fraudulent mortgages, fraudulent MBS, drug money laundering, etc. That’s a start and that’s what OWS means to me. And by the way, according to the first amendment to the Bill of Rights, I don’t need a permit to protest: **Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/59 "2011-11-01T20:18:47Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > And by the way, according to the first amendment to the Bill of Rights, I don’t need a permit to protest: Google “time place manner restrictions first amendment.” ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/60 "2011-11-01T20:32:43Z")
Find me time and place manner restrictions in the Bill of Rights. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182.md?page=4)