# Occupy (insert name of city here) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182 "2011-10-29T13:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/101 "2011-11-19T20:09:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Cite please. > > Sorry, but you’re not the most reliable of sources particularly regarding the OWS movement. > > You claimed on another thread that pizzerias around Zuccotti park had “hired 22 new employees”, but when asked to produce proof of this you repeatedly failed to do so. > > So please, show us evidence that the city of Detroit hasn’t had to pay overtime for the police or anything similar. How is such info available? I can tell you the police presence in Detroit is zero. You go to rallies and camping and there are no police at all. If they are paying them overtime, it is not because they are watching the Occupation, because they are not. They have neglected their duties to use tax money and police power against the people. They have saved a fortune in Mace alone. When they wanted the campers to yield for the Thanksgiving day Parade, they had a conference with the Occupiers. Imagine that. Treating people like they have rights and a voice. So un- Bloomberglike. Many have talked to police around Grand Circus Park. They say they understand and many sympathize with the complaints of the Occupation. They know what is happening to the people includes them too. Maybe it is because Detroit is the canary . They are the city that industry stripped the worst . The unemployment problem is enormous. The public services are fading into the mist. Even the bus service is disappearing. Foreclosures are terrible. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/102 "2011-11-19T20:28:06Z")
[Hullabaloo: Those brave, brave police by David Atkins](http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/disgusting-and-inexcusable-by-david.html) here are some police spraying pepper spray in the faces of students sitting on the ground. The explanation was the police feared for their safety. That explanation is as valid as any the right offers. Which means it has none. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/103 "2011-11-19T23:05:50Z")
Ok, so even though you’re not a terribly reliable source, we should simply take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/104 "2011-11-19T23:29:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ok, so even though you’re not a terribly reliable source, we should simply take your word for it. He’s actually correct that that’s the reason given. The administration said they feared for the health and welfare for the students, that’s why the camp was disbanded. I was on campus when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/105 "2011-11-19T23:35:34Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > He’s actually correct that that’s the reason given. The administration said they feared for the health and welfare for the students, that’s why the camp was disbanded. I was on campus when it happened. No, he’s saying that’s why pepper spray was used, and that it’s “allowed”. As usual, he’s wrong about that last part, and an investigation has already been started. No one “allowed” it, even if some cops took it upon themselves to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/106 "2011-11-20T02:35:45Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > He’s actually correct that that’s the reason given. The administration said they feared for the health and welfare for the students, that’s why the camp was disbanded. I was on campus when it happened. I was referring to post 101 not post 102. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/107 "2011-11-20T14:28:42Z")
Robert Hass (former poet laureate) [reports](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/opinion/sunday/at-occupy-berkeley-beat-poets-has-new-meaning.html) that police at U.C. Berkeley used inappropriate force (in stark contrast to Berkeley riots of the 1960’s where police remained civil despite animosity.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/108 "2011-11-20T17:53:23Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Cite please. > > Sorry, but you’re not the most reliable of sources particularly regarding the OWS movement. > > You claimed on another thread that pizzerias around Zuccotti park had “hired 22 new employees”, but when asked to produce proof of this you repeatedly failed to do so. > > So please, show us evidence that the city of Detroit hasn’t had to pay overtime for the police or anything similar. I will make it easy for you. there has been zero police presence at the Occupy Detroit gatherings. Can you understand Zero. There was a music festival at Grand Circus Park last night It had lots of local bands and singers supporting the occupation No cops were there. The police must have forgotten to show up and pepperspray the people. Since they were not there, I think it is fair to assume the cost was zero. This afternoon there is a Thanksgiving Feast at the park. They will feed the poor and homeless again. Since the occupation has taken on the feeding and clothing of the poor and homeless, you can probably understand they have saved the city money. lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/109 "2011-11-20T17:58:13Z")
When our crazy righty claimed that a business went out because of the Occupy wall Street ,did you ask for proof? How do you know the business was not already suffering? How many other businesses went down since they were all subjected to the same circumstances. They should have all gone out of business since the occupation hurt business so badly. Now that the police are beating and pepperspraying people, is that better for business? Get real. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/110 "2011-11-20T18:18:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Berkeley riots of the 1960’s where police remained civil despite animosity. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/111 "2011-11-20T18:49:26Z")
[Former Poet Laureate Robert Hass Clubbed By Police At UC Berkeley | Crooks and Liars](http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/former-poet-laureate-robert-hass-clubbed-po) These are your right wing peeps. Beating random people in the name of police and right wing paramilitary power. A 70 year old professor went to see what was going on because he could not believe the police would randomly smash people. So he and his wife took a whipping. I was a protester in the 60s. I know damn well what they will do when you unleash them. I have been in many situations like that. It is no fun. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/112 "2011-11-20T21:30:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When our crazy righty claimed that a business went out because of the Occupy wall Street ,did you ask for proof? How do you know the business was not already suffering? How many other businesses went down since they were all subjected to the same circumstances. They should have all gone out of business since the occupation hurt business so badly. Now that the police are beating and pepperspraying people, is that better for business? Get real. He was able to provide a cite from a reputable news source. You have yet to provide anything but your own recollections and you’ve proven yourself unreliable. If you were right and the city of Detroit hadn’t had to spend extra money due to the Occupy Detroit then you should have no problem producing a cite for this. Anyway, since you’re bringing up the question of Occupy Wall Street costing people jobs, please, produce proof for your claim that the “pizzerias surrounding Zuccotti Park have hired 22 people”. You’ve been repeatedly asked to present evidence for this assertion and have repeatedly been able to. Please produce it, because I’d like to not have to conclude that you simply made it up. BTW, producing stories of the protestors ordering pizzas doesn’t support you claim. Please produce a cite of “22 people being hired” by the pizzerias in the area. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/113 "2011-11-20T23:03:36Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Cite? Of the 1964 FSM, the Wiki article [Free Speech Movement - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement) mentions mass arrests, but no stick beating or gassing. Half a decade later, Edwin Meese (then operating as Governor Reagan’s Chief of Staff) on 15 May 1969 against [People’s Park](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Park,_Berkeley) resorted to nightsticks, buckshot and tear gas. But it should be noted this was the most extreme of several “battles” of that era in Berkeley, and the targets were actively resisting arrest. Police brutality against OWS demonstrations seem to be more common, and indiscriminate. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/114 "2011-11-20T23:19:04Z")
In Egypt the authorities tore down tents of demonstrators, shot them with rubber bullets and peppersprayed them, in an action Fox News described as an assault. When it happens here itis because they were dirty hippies and the cops had no choice. We are no different than the nations we accuse of violence against their citizens. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/115 "2011-11-20T23:34:55Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > In Egypt the authorities tore down tents of demonstrators, shot them with rubber bullets and peppersprayed them, in an action Fox News described as an assault. When it happens here itis because they were dirty hippies and the cops had no choice. > We are no different than the nations we accuse of violence against their citizens. The cops who pepper sprayed the folks in Davis have been placed on leave, pending an investigation. Not seeing that happening in Egypt, so no, we are not the same. Please stop spreading ignorance on this MB-- we’re supposed to be fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/116 "2011-11-20T23:45:31Z")
Well the cops also arrested and detained reporters. Are you at peace with that too.? The freedom of the press does not matter in America anymore. The cops have peppersprayed people in many cities. You are aware of that are you not? Are you ignorant of that too? Fight your own ignorance as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/117 "2011-11-20T23:52:10Z")
It is political repression that is going on. Toss in stopping free speech and free press and you have a nice triple play going. Nothing to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/118 "2011-11-20T23:55:12Z")
No, I’m not going to let you dance away on this. You stated that we are no different than the Egyptians. I just showed you were wrong. Now, you are saying we don’t have freedom of the press, which is a claim that laughable on the face of it. All these stories are reported in the media, and there is no evidence that the press is being suppressed because some small number of journalists got mixed up with the protestors. No journalist is sitting in jail right now because of these protests. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/119 "2011-11-21T00:07:06Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/20/howard-kurtz-to-nyc-apologize-for-media-censorship-of-occupy-evictions/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/20/howard-kurtz-to-nyc-apologize-for-media-censorship-of-occupy-evictions/) Yep. No dance needed. There is a big difference. We claim to have rights. But they are being taken away by police repression and a news media that applauds the brutalization of American citizens. [Occupy Oakland: second Iraq war veteran injured after police clashes | Occupy Oakland | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/04/occupy-oakland-second-veteran-injured) Tell these veterans of Iraq war that we are not like other countries. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-insert-name-of-city-here/601182/120 "2011-11-21T00:10:48Z")
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