# Occupy movement: operation Rolling Jubilee, the people's bailout **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053 "2012-11-15T01:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/61 "2012-11-18T07:29:40Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Do NOT bring that study up in decent company again. It should be taught int schools - as a lesson is fraud, deceit, and deliberate skewing of the facts. It’s among the the most infamously deceptive “studies” ever perpetrated, and has no place in any informed discussion. Why, because you say so? Interesting argument. The study was published in the peer reviewed American Journal of Medicine. As far as I can tell your post is your cite. Back in the land of research and hard work, I’ll note that the group compared respondents to nonrespondents by studying court records and found that the 2 groups had similar “…income, assets, debts, net worth, market value of homes, and history of prior bankruptcy.” > [@StGermain](#): > > " According to this study, in 2006 college graduates only made up about 25% of bankruptcy filers." The CNN website reported that the rate of college graduates filing for bankruptcy increased by 20%. That’s a different figure. 70% of debtors didn’t graduate from college. Debtors are not bankruptcy filers. I can’t find your factoid, but that may very well be my error. Could you provide a quote? ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/62 "2012-11-18T16:25:23Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Back in the land of research and hard work, I’ll note that the group compared respondents to nonrespondents by studying court records and found that the 2 groups had similar “…income, assets, debts, net worth, market value of homes, and history of prior bankruptcy.” The CNN website reported that the rate of college graduates filing for bankruptcy increased by 20%. That’s a different figure. 70% of debtors didn’t graduate from college. Debtors are not bankruptcy filers. I can’t find your factoid, but that may very well be my error. Could you provide a quote? My cite is in the report I linked to.The title of the article is “Bankruptcy among college grads grows” and studied bankruptcies from 2006 to 2011. I was using their 2006 numbers for comparison, since your study was published in 2007. In 2011, 70% weren’t college graduates, but college graduate bankruptcy fillings were up 20% from 2006. That means it’s 30% in 2011, and 25% (25% increased by 20% equals 30%) in 2006. > [@](#): > > While those who didn’t graduate from college make up 70% of debtors, the study found that the rate of college graduates filing for bankruptcy increased by 20%. > > “While less educated, low-income individuals continue to represent the typical bankruptcy filer, this report underscores a sophisticated evolution of the profile of the American debtor that now extends to disparate age, income and ethnic groups,” Linfield said. > > The study involved more than 50,000 respondents and ran from 2006 to 2010, tracking the financial status of debtors since the passage of the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act. StG ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/63 "2012-11-18T16:37:12Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I question the idea of “too big to fail,” too. That sounds like nonsense to me - if you’re too big to fail, something needs to be fixed. Has that actually happened in the US with the car companies and financial institutions? No, and it’s only going to get worse. Which is the entire point of Rolling Jubilee, it is a consciousness-raising exercise, they don’t really expect to have an effect on the debt market. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/64 "2012-11-18T18:22:17Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > No, and it’s only going to get worse. Which is the entire point of Rolling Jubilee, it is a consciousness-raising exercise, they don’t really expect to have an effect on the debt market. So “too big to fail” is, potentially, even bigger now and still growing. Why don’t the people making decisions about these things see how dangerous that is? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/65 "2012-11-18T22:33:14Z")
Well, the reason that these things are “too big too fail” is because they are big economic engines. It would be hard to replace them with a bunch of medium sized businesses and get the same results. IIRC, decades ago focusing on medium sized business was the European style and it’s a safer practice, but in good economic times they get the crap kicked out of them by the big companies. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/66 "2012-11-18T22:35:48Z")
They’re up to $347.8k (to knock out $6,961,315 of debt) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/67 "2012-11-18T23:03:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, the reason that these things are “too big too fail” is because they are big economic engines. It would be hard to replace them with a bunch of medium sized businesses and get the same results. IIRC, decades ago focusing on medium sized business was the European style and it’s a safer practice, but in good economic times they get the crap kicked out of them by the big companies. “Too big to fail” banks are not an economic engine for anyone other then themselves, at the cost of a fragile banking system. An inordinate amount of corporate profits shifted to the financial industry after deregulation in the 90s. After the crash of 29 the Glass–Steagall Act was passed to help regulate the financial system, to make sure there was transparency in the system and proper capitalization. There were large commercial banks which took deposits and were insured, and separate investment banks that could invest/risk more and were uninsured. A lot of these protections were stripped out by Congress with the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 99, which lead to mergers of investment banks and commercial banks, creating more profits for the larger banks but also carrying more risk. This deregulation added together with the creation of more opaque financial instruments with misvalued risk created a nightmare in 2008. So either you get a system with larger combined banks with a higher amount of risk and profits and we get disasters like 2008, or we need to split up the risk into separate investment banks again that can’t take down the entire system. Without legislation this won’t happen and we will fall into the same mess again. And the financial industry is the largest lobbying force in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/68 "2012-11-19T08:09:59Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > My cite is in the report I linked to.The title of the article is “Bankruptcy among college grads grows” and studied bankruptcies from 2006 to 2011. I was using their 2006 numbers for comparison, since your study was published in 2007. In 2011, 70% weren’t college graduates, but college graduate bankruptcy fillings were up 20% from 2006. That means it’s 30% in 2011, and 25% (25% increased by 20% equals 30%) in 2006. Hoo boy. My take from your quote was that 30% of all _debtors_ were college graduates, but that debtors have not necessarily filed for bankruptcy. I’m uncomfortable working off of CNN as a secondary source. Furthermore, the study I linked to worked off the data from 5 states: we run the risk of using apples to oranges comparisons. That was part of the reason why I gave a wide range in my original claim. That’s ok: the 40-60% range supports my qualitative point. Also, my study happened to be from 2009 and used 2007 data. We have an apples/oranges problem. “While those who didn’t graduate from college make up 70% of **debtors** , the study found that the rate of college graduates filing for **bankruptcy** increased by 20%.” Emphasis added. ETA: Oh yikes. I’m guessing the CNN study was not peer reviewed: [http://www.financiallit.org/xpages/ccfr.aspx](http://www.financiallit.org/xpages/ccfr.aspx) They don’t make it available at the website: it appears to be an industry report, IMEstimation ETA2: [http://www.financiallit.org/resources/articles.aspx](http://www.financiallit.org/resources/articles.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053/69 "2012-11-19T08:20:48Z")
CNN Study: [http://www.financiallit.org/resources/articles.aspx](http://www.financiallit.org/resources/articles.aspx) [http://www.financiallit.org/PDF/2010\_Demographics\_Report.pdf](http://www.financiallit.org/PDF/2010_Demographics_Report.pdf) The Institute for Financial Literacy is approved to provide BAPCPA-related credit counseling and financial management education in all 50states as well as U.S. territories. The sampling for this report contains respondents from all 50states, the Northern Mariana Islands, Virgin Islands, and Guam. Fifty-two thousand eight hundred fifty-one (52,851) clients volunteered to complete the survey in whole or in part, compared with nearly 1,536,799new non-business bankruptcy cases filed nationally between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2010. They are sampling their client base. That’s inherently a non-representative sample. Comparing the 2 datasets would require more effort that either I or St. Germain would want to do in all likelihood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-movement-operation-rolling-jubilee-the-peoples-bailout/641053.md?page=3)