# Occupy Phoenix Asks: When Should You Shoot a Cop? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227 "2011-11-17T14:46:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/1 "2011-11-17T14:46:36Z")
This group of occupiers is asking, “When should you shoot a cop?” Pamphlets asking this question and laying out justifications for doing so were left at the Occupy Wall Street location in Phoenix, Arizona and found by a Maricopa County Sheriff Deputy. > **[Occupy Phoenix Asks: When Should You Shoot a Cop?](https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/10/28/occupy_phoenix_asks_when_should_you_shoot_a_cop-n691973)** I so fucking tired of the Occutards. Whiny, worthless, pieces of crap. We’ve all seen them and dealt with them in life, and I uphold their 1st amendment rights to be douchebags. This, however, is inciting violence towards LEO and can’t be tolerated, even by liberal apologists. Read the propoganda. What a bunch of fucking morons. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/2 "2011-11-17T14:48:56Z")
Could be worse. They could be openly carrying weapons to their political rallies. But, come on, who would really be stupid enough to do something like that. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/3 "2011-11-17T14:49:22Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > This, however, is inciting violence towards LEO and can’t be tolerated, even by liberal apologists. Don’t worry, they’ll find a way. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/4 "2011-11-17T15:01:58Z")
You should shoot a cop if the cop is about to shoot you. Kill or be killed, son. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/5 "2011-11-17T15:06:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Could be worse. They could be openly carrying weapons to their political rallies. But, come on, who would really be stupid enough to do something like that. That’s not worse. Openly carrying weapons is a right under the law (unless it’s not – in which case I agree with you it’s worse!) But where the law allows it, it’s not worse to carry weapons than it is to suggest shooting cops. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/6 "2011-11-17T15:15:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Could be worse. They could be openly carrying weapons to their political rallies. But, come on, who would really be stupid enough to do something like that. You are seriously stupid. hmmm… let’s see… Tea party: **legally** open carrying guns to an event without an incident -vs- OWS: [Vandalize, burn and close businesses](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/occupy-oakland-violence-_n_1073325.html) OWS: [Assault police officers](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062445/Occupy-Wall-Street-protester-Nkrumah-Tinsley-arrested-terrorist-threat.html) OWS: [Discuss when it is justified to shoot a police officer](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/10/28/occupy_phoenix_asks_when_should_you_shoot_a_cop) OWS: [Assault news reporters covering the story](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5e_1320856929) OWS: [Rape and grope other OWS protestors](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014) OWS: [Sex offender rapes 14yo girl in Occupy camp](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014) OWS: [Has to set up women only tent to prevent sexual assaults](http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_park_big_top_ilBy4VfYIwDGt2I1rM33vL#ixzz1d3ge1RnD) OWS: [Assault bystanders that film them](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ce_1320941149) Yeah yeah yeah.. it’s all those evil teabaggers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/7 "2011-11-17T15:18:45Z")
**G-SE** , there is plenty of scope to complain about this. However, it’s not illegal, so distinguishing openly carrying guns on the ground that _that_ is legal is silly. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/8 "2011-11-17T15:26:19Z")
Liberal checking in here. I’ve read the screed in your cite. It begins with examples (…jackboots are about to herd innocent people into cattle cars…) for which at least some argument could be made for resistance. Then it progresses into areas (…random stops and searches…) that I doubt anyone other than the author could stretch into a reasonable justification for cop killing. I certainly cannot. So? Other than the fact that the author had a printer and access to a “table” at Cesar Chavez Park, whatever does this have to do with the Occupy movement? There don’t seem to be any official spokespeople for Occupy, so this person clearly can’t be one. And I fail to see any movement by Occupy participants to embrace this stupidity. So again, what actual connection is there between Occupy and this “letter” that allows you to draw the conclusion you’ve drawn in your OP? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/9 "2011-11-17T15:27:57Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > You are seriously stupid. > > hmmm… let’s see… > > Tea party: **legally** open carrying guns to an event without an incident I’d say carrying guns while promoting second amendment remedies is worse than not carrying guns while doing so, even if no shots were actually fired. The rest of your post is immaterial, since the person you are responding to did not say that other stuff wasn’t worse. (I’m assuming on faith that these are accurate.) And note, I’m a liberal, and I am not defending this. I’m merely pointing out that your logic is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/10 "2011-11-17T15:34:02Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > So? Other than the fact that the author had a printer and access to a “table” at Cesar Chavez Park, whatever does this have to do with the Occupy movement? There don’t seem to be any official spokespeople for Occupy, so this person clearly can’t be one. And I fail to see any movement by Occupy participants to embrace this stupidity. So again, what actual connection is there between Occupy and this “letter” that allows you to draw the conclusion you’ve drawn in your OP? On one hand, that was the same argument used to defend the Tea Party when a couple of people showed up at every rally with signs that said “get rid of the nigger” or whatever, and it didn’t work then. On the other, it’s harder for OWS to police a stack of fliers than it is a guy with a sign. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/11 "2011-11-17T15:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > This, however, is inciting violence towards LEO and can’t be tolerated, even by liberal apologists. Whatever. Go to a gun show sometime and check out any of dozens of books and pamphlets addressing the exact same topic, except with a right-wing slant. Where’s the outrage about that? Until I see a proportionate response about those folks, I’m going to take this manufactured outrage for exactly what it is: a purely politically-motivated attempt to discredit #OWS and steer conversation away from the issues #OWS are trying to draw attention to. I’m extremely skeptical that you have any real concern for the safety of the police. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/12 "2011-11-17T15:38:57Z")
IIRC, \*\*ducati \*\*is actually a police officer, so I would be quite surprised if he doesn’t have any real concern for police safety. At the very least, he presumably has a self-serving interest. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/13 "2011-11-17T15:41:59Z")
As a liberal I’ll come out and say it - shooting cops is bad and liberals that claim it isn’t are idiots. Glad I got that off my chest. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/14 "2011-11-17T15:47:02Z")
Frankly I would not believe _anything like this_ coming from the Maricopa Sherriff’s Office. They have “found” some dubious things before. Also, cattle cars? Those dissappeared about 1960 IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/15 "2011-11-17T15:49:01Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > Tea party: **legally** open carrying guns to an event without an incident > > -vs- > > OWS: [Vandalize, burn and close businesses](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/occupy-oakland-violence-_n_1073325.html) > OWS: [Assault police officers](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062445/Occupy-Wall-Street-protester-Nkrumah-Tinsley-arrested-terrorist-threat.html) > OWS: [Discuss when it is justified to shoot a police officer](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/10/28/occupy_phoenix_asks_when_should_you_shoot_a_cop) > OWS: [Assault news reporters covering the story](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f5e_1320856929) > OWS: [Rape and grope other OWS protestors](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014) > OWS: [Sex offender rapes 14yo girl in Occupy camp](http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014) > OWS: [Has to set up women only tent to prevent sexual assaults](http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_park_big_top_ilBy4VfYIwDGt2I1rM33vL#ixzz1d3ge1RnD) > OWS: [Assault bystanders that film them](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ce_1320941149) In fairness, most tea party animals are 70+ and suffering from obesity, hypertension, impotence, and at least one bad knee, so there’s only so much mischief they can get up to. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/16 "2011-11-17T15:51:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > On one hand, that was the same argument used to defend the Tea Party when a couple of people showed up at every rally with signs that said “get rid of the nigger” or whatever, and it didn’t work then. > > On the other, it’s harder for OWS to police a stack of fliers than it is a guy with a sign. No, it’s not the same. By the report, these were letters left on a table where OWS people (and anyone else) could pick them up or not. They weren’t being carried, distributed, or broadcast by OWS. They weren’t being openly displayed by individuals and then openly tolerated by everyone else. This is nothing at all like the tolerance and acceptance of offensive and racially and ethnically inflammatory signs at Tea Party rallies. Again, other than the location chosen by the author for the clandestine dumping of his pile (pun intentional), whatever does this have to do with OWS? ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/17 "2011-11-17T16:00:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In fairness, most tea party animals are 70+ and suffering from obesity, hypertension, impotence, and at least one bad knee, so there’s only so much mischief they can get up to. But I thought they were going to violently overthrow the government because they don’t like that darkie! which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/18 "2011-11-17T16:02:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > IIRC, \*\*ducati \*\*is actually a police officer. :eek: I hope that’s just Internet-based self aggrandizement. If not, he’s a good example of why many people have little respect for police officers. > [@campp](#): > > Frankly I would not believe _anything like this_ coming from the Maricopa Sherriff’s Office. They have “found” some dubious things before. > > Also, cattle cars? Those dissappeared about 1960 IIRC. [disclaimer]I don’t visit shortened URLs, so haven’t been to/read the site.[/d] But this was an early thought. This is the same office that is running an independent birther investigation (still–and it started _after_ the birth certificate was released, let alone before it). The relevancy hinges on the top-levels of the office willingly contorting reality to fit their political agenda. Again, I haven’t read the article, but even if one recklessly gives credence why is exercising your Second Amendment rights by brandishing a firearm any ‘better’ than exercising your First Amendment rights by brandishing a piece of paper? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/19 "2011-11-17T16:03:37Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > No, it’s not the same. By the report, these were letters left on a table where OWS people (and anyone else) could pick them up or not. They weren’t being carried, distributed, or broadcast by OWS. They weren’t being openly displayed by individuals and then openly tolerated by everyone else. This is nothing at all like the tolerance and acceptance of offensive and racially and ethnically inflammatory signs at Tea Party rallies. Again, other than the location chosen by the author for the clandestine dumping of his pile (pun intentional), whatever does this have to do with OWS? Well, that’s my point. Somebody should have seen them, reasoned that this was not the message OWS wishes to broadcast, picked them up and tossed them out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/20 "2011-11-17T16:04:38Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > :eek: I hope that’s just Internet-based self aggrandizement. If not, he’s a good example of why many people have little respect for police officers. Huh? 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227.md?page=2)