# Occupy Phoenix Asks: When Should You Shoot a Cop? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227 "2011-11-17T14:46:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/21 "2011-11-17T16:06:11Z")
The pamphlet is patently disgusting. But to say it’s somehow representative of all OWS thinking is the same thing as assuming all teabaggers are racist fundamentalist idiots. Neither is a rational conclusion. I know plenty of people involved in OWS who would be horrified by what was written there. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/22 "2011-11-17T16:07:32Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > No, it’s not the same. By the report, these were letters left on a table where OWS people (and anyone else) could pick them up or not. They weren’t being carried, distributed, or broadcast by OWS. They weren’t being openly displayed by individuals and then openly tolerated by everyone else. This is nothing at all like the tolerance and acceptance of offensive and racially and ethnically inflammatory signs at Tea Party rallies. Again, other than the location chosen by the author for the clandestine dumping of his pile (pun intentional), whatever does this have to do with OWS? Well, if I were participating in a movement that is struggling to keep up with its “peaceful, non-violent” (yeah right) image and came across a stack of flyers promoting the killing of police, I would umm.. throw them away. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/23 "2011-11-17T16:28:26Z")
Pff, what, so now you have no respect for property rights? :dubious: Yes, I’m fucking with you. No, I don’t think the fliers were a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/24 "2011-11-17T16:28:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > IIRC, \*\*ducati \*\*is actually a police officer, so I would be quite surprised if he doesn’t have any real concern for police safety. At the very least, he presumably has a self-serving interest. If **ducati** only decries left-wing anti-police screeds and ignores the far more explicit threats from right-wing sources, then it isn’t concern for police… it’s using concern for police as polemic. Especially given the context of the statement, in terms of other parts of the OP _and_ current events, I can’t see this as anything more than grasping for something, anything with which to discredit #OWS, in order to avoid addressing their actual concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/25 "2011-11-17T16:45:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not worse. > > Openly carrying weapons is a right under the law (unless it’s not – in which case I agree with you it’s worse!) But where the law allows it, it’s not worse to carry weapons than it is to suggest shooting cops. Maybe, but a cop is in more danger of being shot from somebody with a gun and no pamphlet than from somebody with a pamphlet and no gun. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/26 "2011-11-17T16:54:29Z")
> [@hazel-rah](#): > > If **ducati** only decries left-wing anti-police screeds and ignores the far more explicit threats from right-wing sources, then it isn’t concern for police… it’s using concern for police as polemic. Okay… so perhaps you can show me where some right wing organization that was in the public consciousness did something similar and **ducati** handwaved it away? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/27 "2011-11-17T17:07:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s not worse. > > Openly carrying weapons is a right under the law (unless it’s not – in which case I agree with you it’s worse!) But where the law allows it, it’s not worse to carry weapons than it is to suggest shooting cops. Not carrying a gun, not owning a gun, not actually threatening to use one, but ruminating when should one be used against over zealous police brutality, is a crime? Did they set up classes in cop shooting? Did they provide weapons? They committed a thought crime. When does self defense count? Taking a beating from a cop is your responsibility now? You are not allowed to defend yourself when the attacker wears blue? There is a point when cops go too far. At that point is a person allowed to defend themselves? Are they not even allowed to think about it and discuss it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/28 "2011-11-17T17:10:58Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > The pamphlet is patently disgusting. > > But to say it’s somehow representative of all OWS thinking is the same thing as assuming all teabaggers are racist fundamentalist idiots. Neither is a rational conclusion. I know plenty of people involved in OWS who would be horrified by what was written there. I agree. And I don’t think we know enough about the pedigree of these pamphlets to be Pitting anyone except the hypothetical person who printed them. What that person’s ties are to the Occupiers is unknown. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/29 "2011-11-17T17:22:57Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > But I thought they were going to violently overthrow the government because they don’t like that darkie! which is it? In the event of an attack on the President, all the mobility scooter ramps at the White House will be raised like drawbridges. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/30 "2011-11-17T17:23:44Z")
Sometimes the comments are good to check: > [@](#): > > Don’t know who distributed the flyers, but can tell who authored it. Saw that same screed back in June: Rose, Larken. “When Should You Shoot A Cop.” Cop Block. 28 June 2011. Web. 28 Oct. 2011. [http://www.copblock.org/5475/when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/](http://www.copblock.org/5475/when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/) . Mr. Rose is a man who was jailed for 15 months on five counts of willful failure to file federal income tax returns based on the frivolous section 861 argument: [http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv05626.htm](http://www.justice.gov/tax/txdv05626.htm) . His attitude hasn’t improved since: [http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/Cup-O-Joel.html](http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/Cup-O-Joel.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/31 "2011-11-17T17:32:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sometimes the comments are good to check: Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! What a lovely mis-pitting. The author of the pamphlet being decried by **ducati** is actually a notorious anti-federal government Tea Party lunatic. Oh my goodness, this is beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/32 "2011-11-17T17:34:16Z")
Oh, and if it wouldn’t cost lives, I’d almost love to see what the Right Wing would do if the OWS people started openly carrying weapons in accordance with their 2nd Amendment rights. They’d fucking die of acute hypocrisy poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/33 "2011-11-17T17:35:54Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! What a lovely mis-pitting. The author of the pamphlet being decried by **ducati** is actually a notorious anti-federal government Tea Party lunatic. Oh my goodness, this is beautiful. While tax protestors _tend_ to be right-wingers, there’s not enough information in the links to determine whether this guy is one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/34 "2011-11-17T17:39:07Z")
Well, IMHO the protesters are complaining about the unfair taxation that we have now, the OWS protesters actually are complaining about the well to do not paying their fair share but that is irrelevant to some dofus anti-tax protesters. I guess they think that as long anyone mentions “unfair taxes!” in a protests then they can also come out to pass pamflets… Of course one should not eliminate the possibility that some extreme right wingers wanted to kill 2 birds with one stone and also smear the OWS protesters by planting the leaflets. And **Really Not All That Bright** , what counts to me is the source of the text and what was the beef of the creators of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/35 "2011-11-17T17:40:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > While tax protestors _tend_ to be right-wingers, there’s not enough information in the links to determine whether this guy is one. He attends and speaks at Tea Party rallies, is a Truther, is virulently anti-federal government, AND is a tax protester. I’m pretty well satisfied that he’s a right-wing nutbag. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/36 "2011-11-17T17:48:32Z")
Where does it say he attends TP rallies? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/37 "2011-11-17T17:53:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where does it say he attends TP rallies? This entire story is about him speaking at a tea party rally. [http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/Cup-O-Joel.html](http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/Cup-O-Joel.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/38 "2011-11-17T17:53:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where does it say he attends TP rallies? Read the third link. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/39 "2011-11-17T17:57:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where does it say he attends TP rallies? According to \*\*GIGObuster’s \*\*third cite, Larken had the microphone and spoke to the people gathered for a Tea Party event, although at 4PM, after the “official closing” at 3PM. Later, organizers tried to distance themselves from this nutbar. Somehow the distinction about the crowd who applauded him becoming somehow no longer Tea Party people at the magical stroke of 3:01PM escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227/40 "2011-11-17T17:57:27Z")
I seem to recall one of the arguments in support of the 2nd amendment is that private ownership of firearms protects against government tyranny. Does that not imply a discussion about when it’s OK to shoot a police officer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupy-phoenix-asks-when-should-you-shoot-a-cop/603227.md?page=3)