# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2081 "2011-11-24T17:32:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, gee whiz, another night of crying myself to sleep clutching my banky. But if someone else asks you why you apparently hold property rights to be above civil rights, you would answer _them_? Hey Scylla, why do you hold property rights above civil rights? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2082 "2011-11-24T18:09:46Z")
**Scylla** , don’t flatter yourself that I have any interest in wasting my time getting involved in a useless point/counterpoint with you. Not only don’t you get to dictate which posts I must respond to, but I don’t _intend_ to respond to _any_ of them because you are a vile piece of filth unworthy of a spot on the bottom of my shoe, let alone in the forefront of my mind. Now, since you’re such a tiny little peabrain, you will, of course, declare victory for yourself. Have at it. It will be the last victory you will be able to congratulate yourself for. 2012 is nigh. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2083 "2011-11-24T18:11:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Even so, what if it were? Is intelligence a virtue, or a characteristic? Is intelligence a form of grace, then, that the smart man is more deserving than his duller brother? intelligence at the command of a generous character is a blessing to us all, but intelligence enslaved to grasping ambition? Not so much. A whole lot not so much. > > We don’t accept that a strong man can beat up a weaker man and take his money. Why do we accept that a smart man can outwit some one less sophisticated and take his? What is it about grasping ambition we find so noble, that we insist it must be rewarded above all others? Why would we expect anything but a rat to win a rat race? > > If the Free Market (blessings and peace be upon it) says that an expert in business and office politics is worth a thousand times more than a fireman, a teacher, or a cop, then the goddam Free Market is obviously fucking wrong. And if we stand about with our hands in our pockets while such injustice grows ever more so, then we are volunteering to take our bite of the shit sandwich. And there will never be enough mayonnaise for me, nor for quite a few others of us spoiled youth. I have not told you recently enough or often enough how much I admire and respect you. Thank you for the thoughtful dignity you bring to the world around you. I absolutely adore you **'luci**. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2084 "2011-11-24T18:13:39Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Hey Scylla, why do you hold property rights above civil rights? It would feel funny wishing you a happy celebration of the time when we escaped your part of the world, but I hope you’ve had an awesome day today, **TwistyCakes**. Love and miss you, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2085 "2011-11-24T18:32:02Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > **Scylla** , don’t flatter yourself that I have any interest in wasting my time getting involved in a useless point/counterpoint with you. Not only don’t you get to dictate which posts I must respond to, but I don’t _intend_ to respond to _any_ of them because you are a vile piece of filth unworthy of a spot on the bottom of my shoe, let alone in the forefront of my mind. > > Now, since you’re such a tiny little peabrain, you will, of course, declare victory for yourself. Have at it. > > It will be the last victory you will be able to congratulate yourself for. > > 2012 is nigh. Happy Thanksgiving ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2086 "2011-11-24T18:34:41Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Hey Scylla, why do you hold property rights above civil rights? I don’t think I said I did. I wouldn’t say something so general. That sounds to me like the kind of thing Elucidator would make up and pretend I said. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2087 "2011-11-24T18:39:15Z")
Shayna: I am sorry to hear that you won’t be engaging in any facts or using any reason, here. I had hopes. I guess though that it is kind of self-qualifying. If you are smart and use facts and reason, by definition you don’t support the occupy movement. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2088 "2011-11-24T19:15:25Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I have not told you recently enough or often enough how much I admire and respect you. Thank you for the thoughtful dignity you bring to the world around you. I absolutely adore you **'luci**. If I had a shred of modesty left, I would probably blush. Backatcha, **Shayna, Queen of the Jungle.** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2089 "2011-11-24T19:30:33Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t think I said I did. I wouldn’t say something so general. That sounds to me like the kind of thing Elucidator would make up and pretend I said. Not perzackly, you just did your faux-naif shtick, gosh, Unca 'luc, why can’t a man spend his money any way he likes, its his money, why can’t he spend as much as he wants to support his political ideals? Because, effectively, that means that a rich man can buy more political power than someone else. Which is true, but shouidn’t be true. We should work on that, rather than accepting it. Because, effectively, that means property rights trump civil rights. Your kids can probably explain that to you, if you have any problem. I know mine can, if he ever gets back from Skyrim. > [@](#): > > …If you are smart and use facts and reason, by definition you don’t support the occupy movement. Well, that certainly settles that! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2090 "2011-11-24T21:18:43Z")
There’s no real point with interacting with Scylla in this thread unless you want to hear fiat pronouncements from the Lord High Financier. Granted, those pronouncements amuse the living hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2091 "2011-11-24T21:25:33Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > There’s no real point with interacting with Scylla in this thread unless you want to hear fiat pronouncements from the Lord High Financier. > > Granted, those pronouncements amuse the living hell out of me. Or you know, you could try having some facts, or a cite, or knowing what you are talking about. That would be a novel thing for you to try. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2092 "2011-11-24T21:30:14Z")
Let’s just take one example. I said, I was offended by every stupid-ass MBA I’ve heard who insists that companies should always expect X% growth, whatever it is. Scylla’s bizarre, otherwordly response, is to cite a bunch of companies who made more than that, as though I were talking about some kind of growth ceiling. In other words, totally missing the point of my sentence–today’s business student has been taught that if you’re not getting X% annual growth, you need to change something ANYTHING until you get there. When I got my business degree, X was 15-20%. That’s fucking retarded. If you’re going to talk about a growth floor below which your business is less able to ride out the month-to-month vargaries of the market, it’s absolutely and only valid to talk about it in terms of inflation. The Lord High Financier ought to practice his reading comprehension a bit more before he presumes to lecture further on finance. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2093 "2011-11-24T21:31:37Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Or you know, you could try having some facts, or a cite, or knowing what you are talking about. > > That would be a novel thing for you to try. Hey, I’m not going to be one of the assholes out of a job when the general public gets pushed too far. I provide a useful service, and I don’t charge too much for it, you see. Because, unlike the vast majority of finance and business fuckers currently in place, I know how to plan for a time horizon longer than six months without having “rape the people who do useful work out of any access to their productivity gains, because I just have to have a seventeenth gold-plated yacht” on my agenda. I mean, I can tell you’re panicking at the thought of the financial industry’s house of cards getting blown over, but don’t take that out on ME. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2094 "2011-11-24T22:26:47Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Let’s just take one example. > > I said, I was offended by every stupid-ass MBA I’ve heard who insists that companies should always expect X% growth, whatever it is. > > Scylla’s bizarre, otherwordly response, is to cite a bunch of companies who made more than that, as though I were talking about some kind of growth ceiling. > > In other words, totally missing the point of my sentence–today’s business student has been taught that if you’re not getting X% annual growth, you need to change something ANYTHING until you get there. When I got my business degree, X was 15-20%. > > That’s fucking retarded. If you’re going to talk about a growth floor below which your business is less able to ride out the month-to-month vargaries of the market, it’s absolutely and only valid to talk about it in terms of inflation. > > The Lord High Financier ought to practice his reading comprehension a bit more before he presumes to lecture further on finance. What school did you go to where they taught you such a thing? I’m calling bullshit. You show me a textbook that has this in it. You are totally making shit up. Prove me wrong. I dare you. In fact, I know you re lying. There’s no textbook that teaches any such thing. Never was. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2095 "2011-11-24T22:39:51Z")
Give him the address for the Library of Congress, tell him “It’s in there, good luck!” Gander sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2096 "2011-11-24T23:31:32Z")
That’s the funny thing about this thread. The Lord High Financier is free, free as a bird with his DEMANDS for cites from everyone else. He requests cites like my infant daughter requests breastmilk–loudly, barely coherently, and with complete assurance that the world revolves around him. But when it comes to providing them, he lacks sorely. Instead, he demands again: that we accept his expertise as gospel truth. This is as good a metaphor for what he thinks the distribution of money vs. labor should be and who should control it (respectively, “as much as can be hooked or crooked to my masters, who are going to make me one of the 1% ANY SECOND NOW, and screw everyone else” and “my banking overlords”) as any. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2097 "2011-11-24T23:35:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What school did you go to where they taught you such a thing? I’m calling bullshit. You show me a textbook that has this in it. > > You are totally making shit up. > > Prove me wrong. I dare you. In fact, I know you re lying. There’s no textbook that teaches any such thing. Never was. > > Nice try. You’ll just have to accept it comes from the same sources as your pronouncements about the financial industry. Except that I’ve actually worked with venture capital idiots who demanded it. Watched people on the dope claim it as fact in support of YOUR side of the political spectrum. And, y’know, had classes where it was taught as fact. In those heady days of 2000 when it was all possible. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2098 "2011-11-25T00:08:38Z")
When y’all are done measuring your manhoods, please be sure to wipe down the countertop. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2099 "2011-11-25T00:23:42Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You’ll just have to accept it comes from the same sources as your pronouncements about the financial industry. > > Except that I’ve actually worked with venture capital idiots who demanded it. Watched people on the dope claim it as fact in support of YOUR side of the political spectrum. > > And, y’know, had classes where it was taught as fact. In those heady days of 2000 when it was all possible. Well then you should have no problem providing cites shoeing this to be the case, not to mention that still without having provided a cite, you are already moving a bar. What you said was that students were being taught this. I called you a liar and asked you to prove your bullshit. Still no cite from the lying ass bitch. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2100 "2011-11-25T00:24:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You’ll just have to accept it comes from the same sources as your pronouncements about the financial industry. > > Except that I’ve actually worked with venture capital idiots who demanded it. Watched people on the dope claim it as fact in support of YOUR side of the political spectrum. > > And, y’know, had classes where it was taught as fact. In those heady days of 2000 when it was all possible. So it should be trivial to cite. I also call bullshit. Or else you really should ask for at least a partial refund. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=106)