# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2101 "2011-11-25T00:24:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > … Scylla, you seem to forget a simple fact: I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument than anything you’ve said so far in this thread. > [@MemoryLeak](#): > > … No one has yet given any fucks about anything you’ve had to say, why should I be the one to start? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2102 "2011-11-25T00:46:10Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Scylla, you seem to forget a simple fact: I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument than anything you’ve said so far in this thread. That would certainly explain your habit of making up shit and dropping it here. Here I’ve been providing cites and facts, but you, you’re unencumbered by the truth. Post a cute liar. I am sick of cleaning up your lies, and you’ve been posti g doozy after doozy you ignorant sack of lying shit. Prove me wrong, liar. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2103 "2011-11-25T02:05:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > No one has yet given any fucks about anything you’ve had to say, why should I be the one to start? Withering argument! Not bad for an AA in Business Management. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2104 "2011-11-25T02:08:20Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Let’s just take one example. > > I said, I was offended by every stupid-ass MBA I’ve heard who insists that companies should always expect X% growth, whatever it is. > > Scylla’s bizarre, otherwordly response, is to cite a bunch of companies who made more than that, as though I were talking about some kind of growth ceiling. > > In other words, totally missing the point of my sentence–today’s business student has been taught that if you’re not getting X% annual growth, you need to change something ANYTHING until you get there. When I got my business degree, X was 15-20%. > > That’s fucking retarded. If you’re going to talk about a growth floor below which your business is less able to ride out the month-to-month vargaries of the market, it’s absolutely and only valid to talk about it in terms of inflation. > > The Lord High Financier ought to practice his reading comprehension a bit more before he presumes to lecture further on finance. Sheeze, I have no dog in this fight, but what the hell thread are you reading? He’s explained things well and provided cites. You get in a huff and talk a very big game, but, evidently talk out of your ass. You made a claim and **Scylla** called bullshit on it, claiming you we lying. **MemoryLeak** joined in an called bullshit, too. So, let’s make it three. Bullshit. Cite! Here is another claim that seems to have zero basis in reality. Not that can be seen in this thread anyway. [QUOTE=Zeriel] Scylla, you seem to forget a simple fact: I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit a better argument than anything you’ve said so far in this thread. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2105 "2011-11-25T03:10:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > … Ah, I was wondering when the bigot would show up. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2106 "2011-11-25T03:42:32Z")
Also, really cute trick–asking me to cite a textbook I sold back over a decade ago because it was too useless to sit on my bookshelf, and which has gone through several revisions since. Maybe you’d accept a photocopy of my class notes? Incidentally, the prof? On sabbatical from Goldman-Sachs. Biggest waste of space I’ve ever in my life met–he had no room for a personality, his ego was taking up too much space. Literally bragged in the classroom about how we all needed to kiss his ass because he was making more than any fifty of us would ever see unless he took a personal liking to us and got us under his wing. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2107 "2011-11-25T04:52:19Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Also, really cute trick–asking me to cite a textbook I sold back over a decade ago because it was too useless to sit on my bookshelf, and which has gone through several revisions since. Maybe you’d accept a photocopy of my class notes? > > Incidentally, the prof? On sabbatical from Goldman-Sachs. Biggest waste of space I’ve ever in my life met–he had no room for a personality, his ego was taking up too much space. Literally bragged in the classroom about how we all needed to kiss his ass because he was making more than any fifty of us would ever see unless he took a personal liking to us and got us under his wing. Well we’ve put you in quite the pickle! Oh, I know, just let us know the community college and we can use our mad sleuthing skills and dig up the syllabus. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2108 "2011-11-25T05:01:46Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Ah, I was wondering when the bigot would show up. Whether I’m a bigot or not…whether I showed up or not, you’re still in the same pickle that your big mouth and small brain got you in. And that deserves a big fat :D. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2109 "2011-11-25T05:17:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Whether I’m a bigot or not…whether I showed up or not, you’re still in the same pickle that your big mouth and small brain got you in. You have me confused with your compatriots, I think. > [@](#): > > And that deserves a big fat :D. See, what’s funny about this is that the one person who HAS brought dozens of useful cites, Scylla ostentatiously ignored. I’m doing this for my own amusement. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2110 "2011-11-25T05:30:53Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yes. The company is owned by the shareholders and it needs to be run with their interests in mind. You really don’t get what’s so wrong about this, do you… > [@](#): > > No. I’ve found that it works pretty much the way I think it does. Again, we’ve spoken social mobility in this very thread and it’s actually a little higher than I thought it would be. > > There are several problems with statistics though, BBC. First off, they really don’t have anything to say about individuals. They really don’t affect you. They apply to large groups. For example, there are statistically very few interracial marriages. Based on this you might think that the chances of you having an interracial marriage are stacked against you. They are not. It’s just that few actually choose to go ahead and marry someone outside their race. There is nothing stopping you in the statistics though, and if that is what you really want it’s not very hard. > > The second problem with statistics is that they don’t tell you why. They just tell you what. > > For example, social mobility could be down because even the people at the lowest levels are extremely content and fulfilled, and it’s not worth the effort to try and move up because they can’t imagine being more content than they already are. > > I don’t think that’s it, but its as valid an explanation as anything else. > > You may say it’s a lack of opportunity. > > Maybe it’s that. None of that stops any particular individual from doing what they want to do. > > Like most other things, it’s a test of commitment and will more than anything else. I’m not one to make the correlation-causation fallacy. I’m a _huge_ fan of charts linking the decline in pirate population to global warming, for example. However, that said, I remember quite distinctly seeing a study that showed clear _causative_ links in several situations, backing up what I am saying… But I can’t find it any more, so I can’t really expect it to be good enough proof if I can’t even provide it. I’ll admit that I’m more or less going on a combination of gut feeling and interpretation of the news given to me. I’d appreciate it if you realize two things in connection with that, though: firstly, that you are _not_ the normal case by any stretch of the imagination. Even if we grant that the persona you claim to have is real (for some reason, people would doubt you much more readily if you said you were a teenage girl; but “wildly successful stock trader who worked his way up from the bottom” doesn’t really get much attention), it’s unrealistic to expect others to have similar success. The second is that pretty much all _we_ have to go on is your word, and that’s just not good enough. Zeriel does have one point: you haven’t really cited anything you bring up either. > [@Scylla](#): > > BBC: > > And anyway, aren’t you in Germany? So what the fuck do you know about the employment environment in the US? How could you while you hang out in the Black Forest eating gummi bears and building cuckoo clocks? I’m an ex-pat, and I care about the situation in the USA for three reasons: -I’m bored and debate is something I enjoy heavily. -I may want to go back there. I can’t get laid in Germany worth a damn. -.- -The US economy has the power to fuck up literally the entire rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2111 "2011-11-25T05:38:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you are smart and good chances are you can get ahead. My dad was a Marine. I did it. It wasn’t that tough. All you have to do is give up the idea that your job is supposed to be rewarding and interesting, and realize that you have to work at things that nobody else wants to do, and do it well and without complaint. For years. For the sake of argument, **Scylla** , let’s assume the above is correct\*. The jobless are not smart enough to get ahead, and they just don’t want to do what nobody else want’s to do and do it well and do it without complaint. What are we (as a society) to do, then? The rich (the smart) will keep buying influence as is their right (hey, they earned it). The poor will keep getting poorer because they are not smart enough to figure out the secret to success, AND it continually becomes more difficult as the rich excercise their right to influence government in their favor. What then? Just keep the system going until the poor revolt and storm the castle(s)? \*For the record I think it’s bullshit ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2112 "2011-11-25T05:42:35Z")
Also: It’s B **P** C ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2113 "2011-11-25T05:46:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Zeriel does have one point: you haven’t really cited anything you bring up either. I find it ironic that the Tighty-Righty brigade (not including you in this category, natch) has decided to show up on Page Umpteen to berate me for an argument style that’s a conscious imitation of Scylla’s bombast, poor cites, and “Lord High Financier doesn’t need to cite himself!” posturing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2114 "2011-11-25T10:50:13Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > It would feel funny wishing you a happy celebration of the time when we escaped your part of the world, but I hope you’ve had an awesome day today, **TwistyCakes**. Love and miss you, friend. I haven’t gone away, you know 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2115 "2011-11-25T12:10:42Z")
Z: What I am saying is that you are lying and just making stuff up, pulling it out of your ass. If you are not lying, and you were taught what you said you were, than there would be some evidence of it somewhere, or some evidence that that was the thinking at the time. You should have no trouble citing something and saying “see this is what the academic thinking was at the time” But you can’t, because you made it up. Nobody taught that. Sadly you weren’t smart enough to make up a credible lie. What you said is as obvious a lie as if you’d said you learned in physics class that gravity is just happy thoughts. This just continues the pattern of incredible ignorance you’ve spouting, claiming that Finance thinks it’s 30% of GDP or that the Fed is not a credible cite for showing credit demand. Give me a break. Who do you think you are fooling, you ignorant twit? Of course, you could prove me wrong by posting something supporting what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2116 "2011-11-25T12:21:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I find it ironic that the Tighty-Righty brigade (not including you in this category, natch) has decided to show up on Page Umpteen to berate me for an argument style that’s a conscious imitation of Scylla’s bombast, poor cites, and “Lord High Financier doesn’t need to cite himself!” posturing. 😃 You are such a lying bitch. I’ve provided cites showing that finance is nowhere near 30% of GDP in response to your ignorant bluster. I’ve shown. Items and quotes to the occupy movements own journal to show that they are not arguing for the things Shayna and Rolling Stone say they are. I have shown cites to the Fed showing that the demand for credit shrank dramatically in 2008-09 and I have shown a cite to a chart built on, iirc. 15000 other cites showing the total world economy. That’s just in the last couple of pages. You on the other hand have just been lying and making shit up. You have no clue what you are talking about, and it’s obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2117 "2011-11-25T14:56:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You are such a lying bitch. You’re the one who rolled into this thread with pronouncements regarding how you were an experienced member of the financial services community, and how everything everyone said that disagreed with you was wrong. It was at that point I decided my role in this thread was going to be taking the piss out of you. Reinforced when \*\*RTFirefly \*\*absolutely handed you your ass with cites and you responded by ostentatiously ignoring him and branding him a troll. And now I see you’ve summoned the Tighty-Righty Brigade because you can’t hack it yourself. It’s cute, mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2118 "2011-11-25T15:02:12Z")
Z: Ok so your goal was to lie and make up shit in order to cover up the truth. That’s real admirable. Since you seem to have abandoned any pretense of defending your lies, I’ll consider this a tacit admission, and the above your lame excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2119 "2011-11-25T20:26:11Z")
I find it hilarious that when YOU pronounce things are so because of your experience, we’re to bow to the High Financier. And when I do it, I’m a liar and making shit up. Tell me, are you participating in any threads on OWS that AREN’T in the Pit, where you could be getting called on your poor cites? Mockery is fun, you see. And you’re supremely fun to mock, since you’re so overwrought and defensive in this thread compared to pretty much anywhere else I’ve seen you post. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/2120 "2011-11-25T20:35:40Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I find it hilarious that when YOU pronounce things are so because of your experience, we’re to bow to the High Financier. And when I do it, I’m a liar and making shit up. I follow my factual statements up with cites > [@](#): > > Mockery is fun, you see. And you’re supremely fun to mock, since you’re so overwrought and defensive in this thread compared to pretty much anywhere else I’ve seen you post. True. I hate to see pieces of ignorant shit spout lies about a business I know and care about, that employs a lot of good people, and can do a lot of good for the world. BTW, I don’t even believe you are an IT person. Most IT people I know have a respect for facts. You’re really just another moron and a liar. I’m still waiting you to cite all these businessmen and teachers who think 15%-20% above inflation is a rational growth rate that you’ve been bitching about. Or… have we reached the point where you are willing to admit what is obvious to everyone? That you are lying? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=107)