# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/201 "2011-09-30T13:41:17Z")
For **Scylla** because the thought of 'hippy chick’s being pepper sprayed just so fucking hilarious: > [@](#): > > A white-shirt, now known to be NYPD Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna, comes from the left, walks straight up to the three young girls at the front of the crowd, and pepper-sprays them in the face for a few seconds, continuing as they scream “No! Why are you doing that?!” The rest of us in the crowd turn away from the spray, but it’s unavoidable. My left eye burns and goes blind and tears start streaming down my face. Frank grabs my arm and shoves us through the small gap between the orange fence and the brick wall while everyone stares in shock and horror at the two girls on the ground and two more doubled over screaming as their eyes ooze… > > The farther away we get, the more normal everyone starts to look. People have no clue about what’s happening just five or six blocks down. Frank and I say maybe two words to each other the whole five-hour bus ride home. > > Just for the record, I love cops. I do, my mother worked in the justice system for 30 years, and I’ve known a lot of really good cops, really good honorable people just doing their jobs. I’ve never agreed with the sentiment, “Fuck the Po-lice,” and I still don’t. But these guys are fucked up. There was an anger in those white-shirt’s eyes that said, “You don’t matter.” And whether they were just scared or irrational or looking for a target for their rage, there was no excuse for their abuse of authority. I had always thought that people who complained about police brutality must have done something to provoke it, that surely cops wouldn’t hurt people without a really good reason. But they do. We were on the curb, we were contained, we were unarmed. Pepper spray hurts like hell, and the experience only makes me wish I’d done something more to deserve it. > [http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.5/jeanne\_mansfield\_occupy\_wall\_street.php](http://www.bostonreview.net/BR36.5/jeanne_mansfield_occupy_wall_street.php) There is a concerted effort to suppress our right to dissent. It’s increasing difficult to get a permit to march. Citizens are limited to ‘free speech zones’ miles from the actual action. Ray McGovern, a 71 year old former CIA analyst, was beaten and arrested this year for silently rising and turning his back during a speech by Hilary Clinton. He didn’t yell or chant or rush the stage or disrupt the speech in any other way. When Obama came to U.T. early this year, a protester that refused to go to the designated ‘protest’ area and instead stood outside with a sign was arrested. I can list more examples if need be. The increasing suppression of lawful dissent scares the shit out of me. Why doesn’t it have the same effect on you? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/202 "2011-09-30T14:40:52Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > I see them all the time at the concerts I go to. I’ve taken to calling them ‘yippies’: hippie children of yuppie parents. I believe that term [is already taken](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_International_Party). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/203 "2011-09-30T14:53:10Z")
Generally Im happy to see self-righteous self-centered people get a dose of reality. But, it appears that every cop there was doing their job and the escalation with mace was unwarranted, and unfortunate. That being said, no. I am not a fan of protesters and I don’t support the right. Protesting is inherently disruptive. It demands attention, is coercive, and in your face and intimidating. It’s expensive to the venue which must send security to retain order. No, I don’t think somebody else has the right to mKe somebody else late for work because they are unhappy and wish to voice that unhappiness. We are in a day and age of in your face messaging and advertising, and there are huge and diverse outlets in which to send messages. Technology has really made protests unnecessary. We’ve moved past them, in much the same way we seem to have moved past the need for labor unions. Then again people used to protest for equal rights, the tight to vote, and other issues with enough gravity that is arguably worth laying down your life to pursue. Nowadays it seems to me that people protest bullshit and nebulous things, and I get the feeling the point of a lot of protests is the experience of the protest itself. So no, I do not support the right to public protests. Stop being annoying assholes. Let other people go about their business without being molested and feel free to ally all the people to your cause that you desire on the Internet. The whole thing is stupid. I’m supposed to support the right of people to go wherever they want anytime the want, so they can yell and shout about what they think is important and interfere with other people and businesses? Fuck that. Obnoxious assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/204 "2011-09-30T15:28:35Z")
People have a Constitutional right to be obnoxious assholes. Why do you hate America, **Scylla**? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/205 "2011-09-30T15:42:23Z")
News Flash! Right-Wing Authoritarian Hates Left-Wing Protesters! Film at 11! ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/206 "2011-09-30T15:43:24Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Fuck that. Obnoxious assholes. Seriously? So…the people protesting rampant wall street corruption and greed which has caused hard working Americans to lose jobs and homes…who then get pepper sprayed by corrupt cops… _They’re_ the assholes? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/207 "2011-09-30T15:45:45Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > News Flash! Right-Wing Authoritarian Hates Left-Wing Protesters! Film at 11! I don’t like any. I don’t think abortion clinic protesters should be allowed either. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/208 "2011-09-30T15:45:56Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > Seriously? > > So…the people protesting rampant wall street corruption and greed which has caused hard working Americans to lose jobs and homes…who then get pepper sprayed by corrupt cops… > > _They’re_ the assholes? Duh. They’re not acceding to the natural feudal order of the world like good peasants are supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/209 "2011-09-30T15:52:41Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > Seriously? > > So…the people protesting rampant wall street corruption and greed which has caused hard working Americans to lose jobs and homes…who then get pepper sprayed by corrupt cops… > > _They’re_ the assholes? Yeah. They see things the way you’ve described which I think is extremely simplistic and stupid, oh and lazy as it seems to demonstrate an almost willful ignorance. So, take the combination of stupid, simplistic, intellectually lazy, loud, disruptive, self-centered, obnoxious, multiply it by a couple of thousand or so, and dump it in the middle of the street and I’m supposed to think this is a good thing? Seriously, I look at your underlying belief which is that greedy wallstreet types s are responsible, and I wonder if you spent so much time in a simplified romper room setting that as an adult you’ve become incapable of understanding concepts with more than one variable. And you guys want to play in traffic? ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/210 "2011-09-30T16:15:42Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Seriously, I look at your underlying belief which is that greedy wallstreet types s > are responsible, and I wonder if you spent so much time in a simplified romper room setting that as an adult you’ve become incapable of understanding concepts with more than one variable. I disagree with you; therefore I have the mind of a toddler. Nice. From the person who thinks that it is the _people being pepper sprayed who are the assholes…_ And, really, my position has now been shoe horned into _only_ greedy wall street types being to blame? It’s more complex than that and there is \*plenty \*of blame to go around, but really, what’s the point? I’m on the side of the regular Americans raising their voices to enact change and you are not. Therefore, we will not agree. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/211 "2011-09-30T16:21:30Z")
I’m being harsh. My apologies for the unwarranted insult. But no, I don’t think it’s the average American who was at the occupy wall street protest/block party. And, no, I don’t respect the “right” of protesters to throw public hussy fits that fuck up everybody else’s day. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/212 "2011-09-30T16:25:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yeah. They see things the way you’ve described which I think is extremely simplistic and stupid, oh and lazy as it seems to demonstrate an almost willful ignorance. Where, good sir, is the oversimplification? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/213 "2011-09-30T16:27:55Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > We’ve moved past them, in much the same way we seem to have moved past the need for labor unions. [Bad analogy](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/amazoncom-and-the-grapes-of-wrath/2011/08/25/gIQAvLSz9K_blog.html#). ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_of_the_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/214 "2011-09-30T16:45:05Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m being harsh. My apologies for the unwarranted insult. But no, I don’t think it’s the average American who was at the occupy wall street protest/block party. > > And, no, I don’t respect the “right” of protesters to throw public hussy fits that fuck up everybody else’s day. It’s all good (I’ve often thought that I personally do a poor job of presenting my views in the first place ). 🙂 I think right now, many of the protesters are young kids, yes. But, there seems to be a general frustration with our government/wall street/corruption coming from all sides. The tea party movement is an example of this frustration. And now, from the left, we have these protests. There are quite a few average Americans who are frustrated and it will be interesting to see if this will grow. I’ve \*got \*to respect their right to throw hissy fits, even when it’s annoying. Isn’t this what America is about? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/215 "2011-09-30T17:30:49Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > We are in a day and age of in your face messaging and advertising, and there are huge and diverse outlets in which to send messages. Technology has really made protests unnecessary. The same technology has also made it easier than ever to hear only the version of news—both fact and opinion— that reinforces one’s preconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/216 "2011-09-30T21:21:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Generally Im happy to see self-righteous self-centered people get a dose of reality. > > But, it appears that every cop there was doing their job and the escalation with mace was unwarranted, and unfortunate. > > That being said, no. I am not a fan of protesters and I don’t support the right. > > Protesting is inherently disruptive. It demands attention, is coercive, and in your face and intimidating. It’s expensive to the venue which must send security to retain order. > No, I don’t think somebody else has the right to mKe somebody else late for work because they are unhappy and wish to voice that unhappiness. We are in a day and age of in your face messaging and advertising, and there are huge and diverse outlets in which to send messages. Technology has really made protests unnecessary. We’ve moved past them, in much the same way we seem to have moved past the need for labor unions. > > Then again people used to protest for equal rights, the tight to vote, and other issues with enough gravity that is arguably worth laying down your life to pursue. > > Nowadays it seems to me that people protest bullshit and nebulous things, and I get the feeling the point of a lot of protests is the experience of the protest itself. > > So no, I do not support the right to public protests. Stop being annoying assholes. Let other people go about their business without being molested and feel free to ally all the people to your cause that you desire on the Internet. > > The whole thing is stupid. I’m supposed to support the right of people to go wherever they want anytime the want, so they can yell and shout about what they think is important and interfere with other people and businesses? > > Fuck that. Obnoxious assholes. Self-righteous? Self-centered? These are citizens that recognize that America is in crisis and are trying to affect change. These are young citizens that have mortgaged their futures to obtain an education but still can’t find jobs. These are citizens that recognize that the interminable wars are bleeding our treasury dry. These are citizens that understand that this planet is going to be a very ugly place soon unless we drastically change our methods of consumption. These are citizens that don’t want to see their parents social security slashed or their grandparents being forced to chose between medicine or food or their children attend substandard schools. These are citizens that are repulsed by the fact that other citizens are being pepper sprayed or beaten or arrested for execising their constitutional right to free speech and assembly. I’m sorry these issues all seem very trivial to you. We tried voting in the candidate who ran on a platform of change,of hope, of community empowerment, of government accountability and transparency and we know we got screwed 6 ways to Sunday. Tweeting ain’t going to change anything and neither is bitching on a message board. But maybe, just maybe, taking to the streets will. Probably not today or tomorrow. But it’s better than sitting back and doing nothing. If you’re dissatisfied and you’ve got a better suggestions on how to apply pressure to our elected representatives to actually you know, start representing us, please let me know and I’ll make sure the word gets out. In the mean time, I’m awfully sorry if you’re\* inconvenienced \*by your self-centered, self-righteous fellow citizens. ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/217 "2011-10-01T01:41:09Z")
What’s going on? Are the police really abusing power or are the protestors to blame? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/218 "2011-10-01T02:40:58Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > What’s going on? Are the police really abusing power or are the protestors to blame? Of course it has to be the protesters who just love fear and pain. There is nothing like the sweet smell of mace or pepper spray to start your day. Getting manhandled roughly by the cops, handcuffed behind your back, dragged into cop car and hauled off to jail is the kind of thrill you just don’t get everywhere. You have no idea how many people just savor such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/219 "2011-10-01T11:55:55Z")
Well, their message is gradually coming into focus it seems: > [@](#): > > \*As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. > > As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.\* Read the whole declaration [here](http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/). I’m beginning to wish I could make it to New York myself. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/220 "2011-10-01T13:49:35Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > Self-righteous? > Self-centered? Oh yes, definitely. > [@](#): > > These are citizens that recognize that America is in crisis and are trying to affect change. > These are young citizens that have mortgaged their futures to obtain an education but still can’t find jobs. > These are citizens that recognize that the interminable wars are bleeding our treasury dry. > These are citizens that understand that this planet is going to be a very ugly place soon unless we drastically change our methods of consumption. > These are citizens that don’t want to see their parents social security slashed or their grandparents being forced to chose between medicine or food or their children attend substandard schools. > These are citizens that are repulsed by the fact that other citizens are being pepper sprayed or beaten or arrested for execising their constitutional right to free speech and assembly. > I’m sorry these issues all seem very trivial to you. I apologize. Should I have been playing inspiring music while I read that? You think you are going to fix these things by having a party and blocking traffic? Angry young people have been raging at shit they don’t understand ever since society progressed to the point where it could spoil its children. What they are doing is nothing new, nor is it anything useful, and, like every generation before you will either end disillusioned, and spoiled, and stupid convinced that you’ve been screwed and kept down by other, evil people. Or else, you will grow up and learn that the world is a complex place without easy answers that can be solved by having a party. Than, you can spend 20 years or so applying yourself to a tiny specific little rubric of knowledge, at which point you will be qualified to have an opinion on it. Than, you can change it just a tiny little bit and make it a tiny little bit better. And, as you do so, you will no doubt be annoyed by the idiot children in the street, and wonder why they can’t simply celebrate their youth without having to pretend that it is important and meaningful. > [@](#): > > We tried voting in the candidate who ran on a platform of change,of hope, of community empowerment, of government accountability and transparency and we know we got screwed 6 ways to Sunday. Color me surprised that the quick brainless solution didn’t work. > [@](#): > > Tweeting ain’t going to change anything and neither is bitching on a message board. > [@](#): > > But maybe, just maybe, taking to the streets will. > Probably not today or tomorrow. > But it’s better than sitting back and doing nothing. > If you’re dissatisfied and you’ve got a better suggestions on how to apply pressure to our elected representatives to actually you know, start representing us, please let me know and I’ll make sure the word gets out. Why on earth would you think taking to the streets would help? Do you even really know what you are protesting? Do you know what you are unhappy about? I think you think you do, but you are only really seeing effects, not causes. There really are not easy scapegoats on this one. If you wish to effect meaningful positive change you have to put in the work to understand what it is you are talking about. I’ll clue you in on the credit crisis. It wasn’t one greedy group, or set of bad regulations, or any other simple thing that was responsible. The system was much too robust to be taken down by a single issue. What happened was that there was a chain of bad interracting mistakes perpetuated over decades by multiple parties in both public and private sectors in the us and abroad that culminated in a massive failure the scope of nobody anticipated. You want to change things? Do what I did. Get a degree in economics or finance. Spend the first 5 years of your career working 100 hours week for nothing. Climb the ladder of experience, knowledge and competence until you begin to understand the tiny little piece of the world around you over which you exert control. Then, try to make it better. Why you are a bunch of morons, is that the above is hard and difficult, and if you do it, than down the road you will just be viewed as part of the problem by the next generation of ignoramuses. Dancing in the street and shouting is fun, and gets recognition, but it just marks you as annoying assholes. You want change, quote me: "Victory goes to he who takes the time to read the instruction manual and then gets to work with a screwdriver. Victory does not go to the person who jumps up and down and shouts about how much everything sucks." > [@](#): > > In the mean time, I’m awfully sorry if you’re\* inconvenienced \*by your self-centered, self-righteous fellow citizens. I accept your apology. Now grow up and get to work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=12)