# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/381 "2011-10-04T02:02:15Z")
Fannie and Freddie insured the mortgages. The slight of hand mortgages were the brain farts of banks and mortgage companies cranking them out as fast as possible. The rating agencies had a dual function. One was regulation. They were supposed to only AAA rate excellent mortgages. But they were paid by the banks for their ratings. Hard to believe that money would actually cause them to over rate the mortgages and CDOs. The rating agencies were essentially bribed out of doing their jobs. When they were foreclosing homes at incredible rates, the banks robo signed the paperwork. They paid people minimum wage to sign the paperwork pretending to be someone else. There were rooms of people faking signatures to crank them out. Bankers bring nothing to the equation of the disaster but greed, dishonesty and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/382 "2011-10-04T02:11:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Fannie and Freddie insured the mortgages. The slight of hand mortgages were the brain farts of banks and mortgage companies cranking them out as fast as possible. > The rating agencies had a dual function. One was regulation. They were supposed to only AAA rate excellent mortgages. But they were paid by the banks for their ratings. Hard to believe that money would actually cause them to over rate the mortgages and CDOs. The rating agencies were essentially bribed out of doing their jobs. > When they were foreclosing homes at incredible rates, the banks robo signed the paperwork. They paid people minimum wage to sign the paperwork pretending to be someone else. There were rooms of people faking signatures to crank them out. > Bankers bring nothing to the equation of the disaster but greed, dishonesty and lies. Are you trying to convince yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/383 "2011-10-04T02:15:00Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I do think it is kind of funny that the protestors let themselves get led into a corral from which there was no escape by the police (the corral being the Brooklyn Bridge,) like a herd of beef. > > … > > Scylla’s Rules for Committing Illegal Activities: > > Rule #1 > > “When breaking the law, do not follow the police into areas without an exit.” Thing is, if they went onto the bridge in an **attempt** to get arrested, this would have been fine. I mean, civil disobedience is a noble tradition, and getting 700 people arrested simultaneously is a good way to get on the news. I have no complaint whatsoever with them getting arrested. It’s the complaining about it afterward that’s the problem. There is also, of course, the question of what’s accomplished by getting arrested there. Imagine if, instead, they went into a culpable bank’s headquarters, asking for specific employees/board members to give back specific bonuses to the government, and refusing to leave until the bonus were remitted or until they were arrested. Imagine 700 people doing this in groups of 5 all week long–or in escalatingly large groups, or 700 people doing it to different banks. See, THAT would be the sort of thing that could draw attention to the cause. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/384 "2011-10-04T02:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > …Scylla’s Rules for Committing Illegal Activities: > > Rule #1 > > “When breaking the law, do not follow the police into areas without an exit.”… In my experience (limited, but galaxies more than yours), disobeying the cops has a number of drawbacks. What’s Plan B? If it only sucks, it will be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/385 "2011-10-04T02:27:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … See, THAT would be the sort of thing that could draw attention to the cause. They haven’t drawn attention to the cause? Seems like they have. I mean, here we are… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/386 "2011-10-04T02:29:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In my experience (limited, but galaxies more than yours), disobeying the cops has a number of drawbacks. What’s Plan B? If it only sucks, it will be an improvement. You may be right. From what I read, I am not under the impression that they were ordered. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/387 "2011-10-04T02:36:40Z")
Why else would they follow? Cops were offering Nickelback tickets? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/388 "2011-10-04T02:38:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They haven’t drawn attention to the cause? Seems like they have. I mean, here we are… Positive attention ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/389 "2011-10-04T02:38:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why else would they follow? Cops were offering Nickelback tickets? Im thinking of pointing and waving and herding. More like suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/390 "2011-10-04T02:41:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Positive attention Hey, I’m giving it positive attention, you’re the one being all Eeyore about this! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/391 "2011-10-04T02:44:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hey, I’m giving it positive attention, you’re the one being all Eeyore about this! Love you, dude, but they could be grilling kittens over trash barrels and you’d be giving them positive attention. Do you really think that getting accidentally arrested on a bridge and then complaining about it is getting them the same quality of attention that they’d get from having an organized, highly symbolic series of deliberate arrests, a la–well, a la pretty much every successful nonviolent resistance movement ever? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/392 "2011-10-04T02:46:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Im thinking of pointing and waving and herding. > > More like suggestion. And if the suggestion is not met with enthusiastic approval? “Thank you, no, officer, I would prefer this boulevard, it has more trees.” Boy, when you say you’ve never been to one of these, you sure ain’t kldding, are you? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/393 "2011-10-04T02:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > This is why I throw my hands up in the air and have no idea how to respond to a retarded fucking idiot RTF who will insist that Fannie and Freddie were “late to the party.” How do you respond to some asshole is so fucking clueless that he is just stringing words together that sound good. This is what I mean when I say he is like somebody shouting “goal” at a baseball. If stupidity were terminal, he’d be dead. [Late to the party](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/fannie-freddie-further/). Everything you say is so much crap, because there’s nothing about what actually happened or when. Just this law said this was _supposed_ to happen, and that law dictated that. And then there’s what _actually happened_. Which is that [Fannie and Freddie were late to the subprime party](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/fannie-freddie-further/). You’ve got nothing but arm-waving. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/394 "2011-10-04T02:54:54Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > 'Luce and Lefty and Red: (hi Red!) > I do think it is kind of funny that the protestors let themselves get led into a corral from which there was no escape by the police (the corral being the Brooklyn Bridge,) like a herd of beef. > > You would have thought that somebody in that group might have googled “basic tactics,” or “crowd control,” or “police tactics” or something. Yeah, these amateurs had a lot of fucking nerve to think they could protest or something, without having done a detailed study of everything beforehand. That’s clearly why they’re not drawing any media attention to their cause. Oh, wait - they’re doing a wee tad better than Mr. Blimpie, who’s so smart. Guess they were dumb but lucky. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/395 "2011-10-04T03:01:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Love you, dude… Backatcha, snugglebumps, but my heart belongs to Rachel Maddow. > [@](#): > > …but they could be grilling kittens over trash barrels and you’d be giving them positive attention… A man who is ruthlessly honest must admit it is possible that his judgement is hopelessly biased. But since they certainly aren’t grilling…wait, they aren’t, right? Are there videos? > [@](#): > > …Do you really think that getting accidentally arrested on a bridge and then complaining about it is getting them the same quality of attention that they’d get from having an organized, highly symbolic series of deliberate arrests, a la–well, a la pretty much every successful nonviolent resistance movement ever? What, ban _kvetching_? And lose all the Jews? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/396 "2011-10-04T03:07:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > 'Luce and Lefty and Red: (hi Red!) > I do think it is kind of funny that the protestors let themselves get led into a corral from which there was no escape by the police (the corral being the Brooklyn Bridge,) like a herd of beef. > > You would have thought that somebody in that group might have googled “basic tactics,” or “crowd control,” or “police tactics” or something. > > Next thing we will her is the protestors complaining they’ve been attacked with tear gas when police said to them “pull my finger.” > > At some point you just have to shake you head. Hiya back **Scylla** – long time no chat; trust all is well w/you. Re: arrests. Anyone else think the NYPD might have done the massive arrest in order to start building a data base? 'cause that’s what I’d be doing if I was them. Anyway, if so, not much the protesters could have done – or do in any future event. In fact, [globalrevolution](http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution) is broadcasting a video of the march as I type this. Off to watch… ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/397 "2011-10-04T03:22:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Late to the party](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/fannie-freddie-further/). > > Everything you say is so much crap, because there’s nothing about what actually happened or when. Just this law said this was _supposed_ to happen, and that law dictated that. > > And then there’s what _actually happened_. Which is that [Fannie and Freddie were late to the subprime party](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/fannie-freddie-further/). > > You’ve got nothing but arm-waving. Seeing as Fannie and Freddie collectively held 50% of all outstanding mortgages extant in the U.S. at the height of the bubble and that more than half of those were subprime, and seeing as they created the market demand for them out of almost nothing in 1995 and dominated the market for the intervening period… I think you would have to be an absolute moron to continue to insist that they were “late to the party.” Do you mean “late to the party” in the sense that they started the party, were the first persons there because the party was at their house, and ended up drinking more than anybody else? In what sense are they “late to the party?” It would be far more accurate to say that they drank so much that they got ahead of themselves, and to had to walk around the block before they started drinking heavily again. But that is not being late. * * * I was there. I am in the industry. I worked professionally as a trader of CMOs, asset-backeds, and corporates for a major wirehouse. None of this matters because the data is wide open to anybody who cares to look at it. None of this, none of it, gets off the ground or happens without the GSEs mandated appetite for subprime mortgages over nearly a decade, which exceeded 50% of the entire market. Late? They were the party. Do you even understand what you’re reading? Krugman is the worst, most partisan hack on the planet, and all he is really trying to argue is that there was a pause in buying by the GSEs when the market **really** heated up. You see this, right? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/398 "2011-10-04T03:25:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And if the suggestion is not met with enthusiastic approval? > > “Thank you, no, officer, I would prefer this boulevard, it has more trees.” > > Boy, when you say you’ve never been to one of these, you sure ain’t kldding, are you? No. There’s no way I would have just followed everybody up onto the Brooklyn Bridge. I would have surely ducked out. “Guys I’m going to grab a piece of pizza, I’ll catch up with you in a bit.” Sincerely, as a radical with experience, wouldn’t your alarms have been going off at full volume? “boys this might be a good time to make sure you don’t have any recreational pharmaceuticals on you, or any outstanding warrants.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/399 "2011-10-04T03:27:14Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Hiya back **Scylla** – long time no chat; trust all is well w/you. > > Re: arrests. Anyone else think the NYPD might have done the massive arrest in order to start building a data base? 'cause that’s what I’d be doing if I was them. Anyway, if so, not much the protesters could have done – or do in any future event. That’s a pretty scary thought. \*All is well. Thanks for asking. Got any cool new shoes? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/400 "2011-10-04T04:19:31Z")
Guess we’ll find out if any of them try to buy a plane ticket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=21)