# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/501 "2011-10-06T02:35:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Ummm, I’m not being dishonest, but they look like a bunch hippy weirdos to me. Guess that’s as good a reason as any to use their [heads as baseballs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpOMlDVaXzc). Getting really ugly out there tonight. BTW **Scylla** , here’s an extended cut of the video you were discussing upthread – feel to pick-up where you left your narrative… [**Police Brutality**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meT8CJgEBQw&feature=related)? Peace. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/502 "2011-10-06T02:45:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > we whine and take to the streets because our houses don’t keep appreciating at 15% year. Yeah, that’s what this is all about. > [@](#): > > Or, we can’t find jobs that we like? Five people looking, for every one opening. I suppose one could move hundreds of miles from home to be seasonal labor on a farm, and then seasonal labor on another farm a few hundred miles from the first, and so forth. Because seasonal farm labor is really the only kind of job going begging for applicants right now. Yeah, that’s the solution to unemployment: people becoming migrant workers. The American Dream in action. > [@](#): > > And people have the nerve to compare this to the Arab Spring? That’s like Johnny Depp comparing getting photographed to getting raped. It’s such a stupid comparison that it reveals just incredible ignorance of what real suffering, real social injustice is. If you’re not getting crucified while your fingers and toes get fed into a blender, you don’t know what suffering is. Or something like that. Anyway, at least we’ve got **Scylla** to be the ultimate arbiter of how much suffering is enough to be called ‘real’ suffering. > [@](#): > > Sadly, the solution is that we, as a society need to get lean and mean, and suffer for a while, readjust our expectations, so that we can be competitive and excel. It has nothing to do with Obama, or Bush, or Bankers. It has to do with the fact that we overrall, as a society… suck. It’s funny how all the calls for going lean and mean, and adjusting our expectations, seem to apply to the bottom 99%, and never to the top 1%. Doesn’t matter if it comes from an op-ed page or from **Scylla**. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/503 "2011-10-06T02:53:30Z")
[**My little nightstick’s going to get a workout tonight**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBxPzhXFT6c) Hopefully, he was talking about his wiener. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/504 "2011-10-06T03:04:33Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW **Scylla** , here’s an extended cut of the video you were discussing upthread – feel to pick-up where you left your narrative… > > [**Police Brutality**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meT8CJgEBQw&feature=related)? > Peace. Looke like the same video to me. Started and ended the same point, too. I’d already eluded that the pepper spray was both gratuitous and uncalled for. Nothing from e other videos which appear o be taken prior to he other change that. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/505 "2011-10-06T03:05:35Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**My little nightstick’s going to get a workout tonight**](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBxPzhXFT6c) > > Hopefully, he was talking about his wiener. He might have been planning a lot of twirling. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/506 "2011-10-06T03:09:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > snip So, Are you short, slightly built, glasses, beard, curly black hair, pale? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/507 "2011-10-06T06:08:15Z")
Like camping, long walks? ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/508 "2011-10-06T06:12:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. Vote. > 2. Instead of protesting, spend that time at a minimum wage job and donate the money raised to an organization that actually works against corporate corruption. > 3. Nonprofit! Is there an organization that actually works against corruption? hell, I see is the corrupt, corrupting those who are not yet corrupt. Until it has gotten to where Bank employees and attorneys have been granted the right to forge documents in order to enforce a contract. It is absolutely corrupt. let’s let all the forgers out of prison. And I guess the rest of yall don’t know anyone who has lost their job, been unable to find one that will fill the needs of the family, only to end up losing their home. All the while, the govt. bailing out banks, instead of caring what is happening to the citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/509 "2011-10-06T06:13:48Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Why? I mean seriously, why? Why on earth would you think he would or could fix things. Has he done anything? We have no shortage of solid policy ideas. What we lack is a movement behind them. This is a shortage-of-aggregate-demand problem. There are no complicated tradeoffs here. Getting out of a bad recession is conceptually simpler than fixing healthcare or even invading Iraq. > [@](#): > > If you step back and use human history as a comparison, it works **incredibly** well for the bulk of the people. This is about the only part I agree with, at least insofar as upper income countries are concerned. > [@](#): > > We are spolied by how good we have it. We haven’t really had a serious problem societywise since the Great Depression. If we are unlucky, global climactic change might be a serious problem. But it’s probably manageable. Probably. > [@](#): > > And people have the nerve to compare this to the Arab Spring? That’s like Johnny Depp comparing getting photographed to getting raped. It’s such a stupid comparison that it reveals just incredible ignorance of what real suffering, real social injustice is. Not really. There’s a sclerotic oligarchy of incompetents running both shows: highly paid investment bankers designed profitable special instruments grounded on myopia and ludicrous assumption. Unfortunately they took the whole house of cards down with them. > [@](#): > > Anyway, the point is that these protestors don’t even know what the problem is, much less the solution. The problem is unemployment north of 9%, along with an oligarchical financial sector who drove the economy into the ground and commenced whining even after they were bailed out. I’d say these leftish chowderheads have a better grasp of these fundamentals than you do. Cite! [Financial Crisis for Beginners – The Baseline Scenario](http://baselinescenario.com/financial-crisis-for-beginners/) Cite! [Untitled](http://cr4re.com/charts/charts.html) Cite! [Simon Johnson: The Quiet Coup - The Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/510 "2011-10-06T09:52:46Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > So, Are you short, slightly built, glasses, beard, curly black hair, pale? Nah, must’ve been someone else who answered your personal. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/511 "2011-10-06T14:56:18Z")
They are supposed to be heading from lower Manhattan to Jersey City today, and I’m sure a lot of them will get on the wrong PATH train and wind up bound for Hoboken. So I hope to encounter a few on my way home tonight and I will ask them to please tell me \*specifically \*what their goals and aims and grievances are, so I can finally make up my mind whether I am fer ‘em or agin’ 'em. Then I will suggest they go home and watch that PBS series on Prohibition and take to heart the importance of having a clear, narrow aim and not getting sidelined by side issues. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/512 "2011-10-06T15:57:16Z")
The lack of specificity is either a feature or a bug. Seems to me, it is an effort to be inclusive, to create as broad a coalition as possible. This may be foolish, it may not. I dunno. What I do now is that tomorrow, one more time, I will go to be where I’d rather not, to hear what I already know, for no other purpose but to be there. Because the ghost of Tom Paine glares balefully down the centuries. “I gave everything I had, punk. What are you gonna do?” OK, OK, I’m going, already! But I swear, if I have to listen to another dollar store Maya Angelou wannabe, I’m getting severely drunk tomorrow night. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/513 "2011-10-06T16:13:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The lack of specificity is either a feature or a bug. Seems to me, it is an effort to be inclusive, to create as broad a coalition as possible. A broad coalition to accomplish _what?_ To put what complaints and goals out there? That is exactly why they are never going to accomplish a damn thing till they get their act together and come up with a narrow, clear, cohesive message. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/514 "2011-10-06T16:25:14Z")
Then don’t join them. Sit quietly on the sideline, and if one gets close enough, perhaps you can scold them for their failure to reach you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/515 "2011-10-06T16:30:31Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > A broad coalition to accomplish _what?_ To put what complaints and goals out there? That is exactly why they are never going to accomplish a damn thing till they get their act together and come up with a narrow, clear, cohesive message. Except they already _have_ accomplished something. Just getting issues of economic justice and injustice back into the discussion is a big first step. If nobody was talking about it, everybody could ignore it. Where it goes from here, I don’t know. But they’ve accomplished Step 1, which is more than anyone else has on this issue over the past year or two. As Krugman said today: > [@](#): > > Or, why don’t they try to work within the system? Well, how’s that been going for those who did indeed try? When palace intrigue undermined the likes of Elizabeth Warren even within the Obama administration, and Republicans have thrown their full backing behind the malefactors of great wealth, why shouldn’t protesters go outside the usual channels? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/516 "2011-10-06T16:30:33Z")
There are plenty of specific demands, you just aren’t listening. Have you seriously not heard an occupy wallstreet person say “End corporate personhood”? There is a LOT to be mad about if you are in the bottom 99%, since the empowered have been screwing over regular people for decades using a variety of techniques. I’m wondering why you think they don’t have specific complaints and goals just because all of them don’t fit on a bumpersticker. I’m surprised overall the SDMB doesn’t support the movement. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/517 "2011-10-06T16:34:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Then don’t join them. Sit quietly on the sideline, and if one gets close enough, perhaps you can scold them for their failure to reach you. I just think it’s a shame to see so many obviously earnest, concerned, active people totally wasting their time and energy by not having a coherent message or goal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/518 "2011-10-06T16:47:47Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > There are plenty of specific demands, you just aren’t listening. Have you seriously not heard an occupy wallstreet person say “End corporate personhood”? Sure. But what does that mean? Specifically, please. Does it mean disallow the existence of corporations? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/519 "2011-10-06T16:48:50Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > There are plenty of specific demands, you just aren’t listening. Well, that’s the point. Too many demands. > [@](#): > > Have you seriously not heard an occupy wallstreet person say “End corporate personhood”? > > There is a LOT to be mad about if you are in the bottom 99%, since the empowered have been screwing over regular people for decades using a variety of techniques. I’m wondering why you think they don’t have specific complaints and goals just because all of them don’t fit on a bumpersticker. > > I’m surprised overall the SDMB doesn’t support the movement. Perhaps because most of us aren’t confused by catchy sloganeering. “End Corporate Personhood” = “Destroy the Modern Economy and return us to the Middle Ages”. It’s one thing to open a dialog about what rights and privileges corporations (and unions, and clubs, and non-profit organizations like the Sierra Club, btw) should have, but “end” is so absurd as to merit rejection out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/520 "2011-10-06T17:34:44Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > A broad coalition to accomplish _what?_ To put what complaints and goals out there? That is exactly why they are never going to accomplish a damn thing till they get their act together and come up with a narrow, clear, cohesive message. [**The Endgame of Occupy Wall Street Is Critical Mass**](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-wellington-ennis/occupy-wall-street_b_997423.html) > [@](#): > > \*\*What is surprisingly unique about the Occupy Wall Street demonstration, and supporting actions across the country, is the broad immediate support without an immediately stated objective. With so little coverage and a yet unspecified goal, major unions lent their support, supportive occupations cropped up nationwide, and the numbers in Liberty Park are growing despite NYPD crackdowns. > > Unlike anti-war marches, Tea Party gatherings, or other well-worn modes of protest, the notion of an in-person response to Wall Street’s unchecked looting of the economy apparently did not need much explaining. That is because many Americans have been living with painful awareness that their hardships in recent years are related in a myriad of ways to reckless trading, predatory loans, and manifold illegal banking practices, all perpetrated by the same executives still receiving multi-million dollar bonuses whose guilt is trumped by the notion that their companies are Too Big To Fail. > > None of these many abuses by financial institutions collectively referred to as Wall Street are new information. It’s not like people just flooded the streets upon hearing that Bank of America is trying to tack on another surcharge, just after laying off over 30,000 employees, just after widespread manipulation of their loan business was deemed not criminal, by their own accord. (No, that move by B of A was just easy pickings for Democrats trying to remember their purpose.) > > \ > > If Obama really does aspire to be like President Lincoln, then he must recognize that his country is rent apart and it requires a true leader to keep our union from collapsing under debt and looted public services. > > Because when people show up at the gates of their oppressor, the response is not: “What do you want? Can you bullet-point it for me?” You know what this is about. Our country has been decimated over the past three years, with continual revelations of financial impropriety, concerted fraud, and executive compensation the amount of a small nation’s GDP. This might be the one protest where, if asked why you were there, you could reply, “Are you fucking kidding me?” and that would actually be understood.\*\* Hope that helps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=27)