# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/621 "2011-10-09T16:43:43Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > My point, since lil’ **Bricker** has so much trouble with it, is that he’d be perfectly happy to shove anyone into an oven, so long as the proper paperwork was approved by the people he has chose to serve. No, I understand. And I agree. I thought along similar lines when he was apologizing for torturers based on the act being okayed by the torturers. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/622 "2011-10-09T17:26:58Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > Finally- a chance to sit down at the computer again. > **Syclla** -I’m not sure why you’re calling yourself an asshole. I certainly don’t see you as one.I’m also not sure why you are apologizing. > Without trying to be the least bit disparaging-I doubt you were directly responsible for toxic derivatives or the dismantlingof Glass-Steagall or even the housing bubble. > Were you? Not that Im aware of. > [@](#): > > To quickly address a few of your points: > This may sound astoundingly naive but yes, I do place a lot of the blame for the lack of veteran’s benefits on the corporations. > Why? > Well, put simply the money for the military (and schools and roads and social services etc) has to come from somewhere. > If companies like Exxon and Fed-Ex and GE pay no taxes, there’s less money to go around. > (We won’t even get into how the military industrial complex propelled us into Iraq and Afghanistan because I have chickens that will need water soon and discussing that could take up the rest of the afternoon.) Hmmm. That’s kinda backwards, logically, if you know what I mean. First off, you might as well blame yourself. You became a chicken farmer. Why didn’t you do something you hated so that you could earn more money and pay more taxes and help the veterans? Or, I would say, if this is an issue that bothers you, why you don’t volunteer for veterans? I think the government has plenty of money. Why not blame them? I mean, it seems silly to blame Exxon, for the lack of veterans’ benefits when Congress votes itself incredible benefits, salaries and perks. Even you seem to say that the government is not prioritizing properly. So, the inability the government do the right thing is not Exxon’s fault. > [@](#): > > And as I said, I didn’t have much hope for Obama during the elections but at least he promised that he would close Gitmo, restore transparency to government and serve the majority. > Plus, quite honestly, I was really tired and I wanted a little break from the peace activism work I had been doing for the last 5 years. I had outrage fatigue. **Scylla’s Book of Rules** Rule #1 People will say whatever they think you want to hear to get you to do what they want you to. It’s a human thing, not a liberal or conservative thing. > [@](#): > > I do agree that we have to "… as a society need to get lean and mean, and suffer for a while, readjust our expectations, so that we can be competitive and excel. " > I think many of us have a frightening sense of entitlement. > However, I don’t think it’s the exclusively the young that are self-absorbed and self-entitled. > I see plenty of it in my own generation. > We live in a culture that constantly pumps the message that you are what you drive or where you live or how much money you make. > That it’s ok and even smart to screw people over if you can make a buck doing it because the consquences will be negligible. I don’t know what your generation is. I might think of you as “young” people, or you might be my senior, but I’m glad we agree. I however, don’t think that the answer is to blame the corporations for the fact we as a people are soft and stupid. > [@](#): > > The system worked well for the majority-white men-in the 50’s and 60’s. > Not so good, of course, you were a person of color or gay or a woman. I don’t think that’s true. Were talking about growth, a progression. It was certainly better for women than it was 50 years before that, and I don’t think things changed very much for gays until recently. > [@](#): > > Oddly enough, that was also the height of union power and the time that corporations paid substantially more in taxes. > See, here’s the thing. I **do** read history. Correlation does not equal causation. > [@](#): > > I know what happens when there is a great disparity in wealth. > I know what happens when you slash the social services net. > May I recommend “Ill Fare’s the Land” by Tony Judt if you haven’t read it. > Or “Voltaire’s Bastards” by John Saul. > I want a better system then one that let’s the majority of the world’s population live in poverty and fear. > Yeah, I’m a flaming idealist. > As Ji What happens when you slash the social services net??? It’s a genuine question, because I don’t know. > [@](#): > > You asked what I think will happen if we take to the streets. > I think we will force a dialogue. What does that mean? Between who and who? Does this catchphrase actually represent anything good? > [@](#): > > I think we may get some sort of accountability. > I think we may get citizen participation again instead of apathy. > I think we may get _change_. > It’s got to start somewhere. What starts? What are you trying to do or fix? > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’m a raging idealist and I believe,as Jim Hightower said “So now is the time, more than ever, for those who truly value all the principles of democracy, especially including dissent, to be the most forceful in speaking up, standing up and speaking out.” I dunno. To me that’s not far off from General Mao’s state of “constant revolution,” where they just tore down shit they didn’t understand, and it sent the country back 50 years. [/quote] I’ve skimmed this thread and I’ve seen a lot of derision because the NYC occupiers supposedly lack an easily quotable agenda. How many people have actually gone to an occupation in their city to find out what’s really happening? I attended the first general assembly of Occupy Austin. Let me tell you what I saw: A well organized meeting to establish local criteria that we could address as concerned citizens. Proposals put forth that directly impact Austin. One committee had a list of local credit unions with comparison of services for those who wanted to get their money out of the major banks like BOA. [/quote] What’s wrong with BOA? They were stupid enough to buy countrywide, but during that long weekend when the world almost failed, they, at the government’s behest bought Merrill Lynch to stop them from failing. They absorbed Merrill’s CDO losses and took on the chin to save the country because A. The government told them they needed to do it, and B. They thought that long term, it would be worth it. If you’re referring to the fee increase, read this: > **[Bank of America and the Power of Unintended Consequences | The Motley Fool](https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/10/03/bank-of-america-and-the-power-of-unintended-conse.aspx?source=isesitlnk0000001&mrr=1.00)** > > No one's better off, everyone's upset. I know BOA is a great big bank, so that makes them an easy target, but I happy to think they are a pretty good company. [quote[Another issue addressed was the piss poor management of the Capitol Metro-our local bus/light rail service. Cap Met used to offer greatly reduced fares for the disabled or the elderly but bad business practices and the reduction of sales tax revenues have forced it to make budget cuts and of course, the target is those who could least afford it. A group was formed to block funding police surveillance cameras in Austin at a time when crime is low and the city is cutting vital social services. A group was formed to help institute campaign finance reform. A spokesman for the Save Our Springs alliance give a quick speech on how to force the city council to stop the building of a water treatment plant that is extremely costly and unneccesary. That was just in the first afternoon. I also saw tremendous respect and diversity. I saw people getting registered to vote for the first time. I saw an occupier in a wheelchair with the sign “Please don’t cut my Medicaid. I saw another with a placard that said 'Give my parent’s retirement back.” (I also saw one that said “Eat your vegetables”. That might have been Bricker’s PETA person). I saw a marine in full dress uniform. I saw nurses, and teachers, and social workers and firemen and EMS workers. I saw the obligatory bad poet take the mike. I saw, or rather heard, the equally obligatory drum circle. I saw an absurd amount of police officers at Occupy Austin-including at least two SWAT teams postioned on the roofs of the surrounding buildings. I had a moment of extreme irony when a young protestor asked me what he should put on his signage. Most improtantly, I I saw kids unpug their Ipods and get involved in a participatory democracy for the first time in their lives. It was great! I’m going back tomorrow afternoon.[/quote] Ok. I’m glad you had fun. Personally I would just rather go to a block party. I don’t need a veneer of social consciousness to disguise my good time. And, again, many of thee things you discuss as positives, I see as negatives. I don’t care about Austin public transport. I live in PA. Here we think we have a movement, but really you have everybody just doing their own thing. Politics as mosh pit. If i’m going to dance, I’ll dance a real dance. > [@](#): > > Mr. Krugman summed it up nicely for me: > > [http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Wall-Street-protest-offers-Obama-a-second-chance-2208322.php](http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Wall-Street-protest-offers-Obama-a-second-chance-2208322.php) > (Of course, Krugman is still waiting for Obama to finally make a stand but nobody’s right about everything.) I view Krugman probably the way you would view Limbaugh. I simply respect Limbaugh more, because Limbaugh doesn’t pretend to be a serious economist. Krugman is a despicable human being, a liar, and a hack. I would doubt the sun would rise tomorrow if you told me he said it would. But you do raise an interesting point: It seems to me that Occupy Wall Street is to the Tea Party as Air America is to Rush Limbaugh. I frankly think the left is jealous, or worried and trying to copy somebody else’s idea. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/623 "2011-10-09T17:39:20Z")
**Scyllla** never fires a rifle when a shotgun is available. Why be wrong about one thing when you can be wrong about fifty? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/624 "2011-10-09T17:52:13Z")
I do \*so \*enjoy reading about “The Left” in the singular. Such a rich fantasy life some people have… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/625 "2011-10-09T19:42:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why shouldn’t a corporation be subject to due process (14th)? Should the government just be able to arbitrarily dissolve corporations based on whim or political convenience? > > “Free speech” (which would be 1st Amendment) applies to corporations in that, as an oranization, they can state their oppinion the same way you and I can (within the boundaries of libel and slander laws). That is a good thing, as the government should not have the ability to arbitrarily decide which organizations can express themselves. Well, at least we’re discussing Corporate Personhood now, rather than something else. > [@Chief Justice Marshall](#): > > 'A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of creation confers upon it, either expressly, or as incidental to its very existence. These are such as are supposed best calculated to effect the object for which it was created. Who said anything about being able to dissolve corporations based upon whim or political convenience? That’s fantasy: the Executive Branch doesn’t have that power. Now I could imagine a situation where you _might_ want to set up a private-public partnership with exactly that sort of structure: if Joe Taxpayer is a shareholder, he should get a say in the operations. But if that was the case it would be written into the original law. I can’t see how that would be unconstitutional. And on the first amendment, you just endorsed _Citizens United_ as well as all manner of fraudulent advertising claims. Hey that’s fine. But pretending that it’s part of the constitution is highly dubious as per the arguments made by Chief Justice Marshall (1819). Again, there are all sorts of statutory protections for corporations that might make sense. They should be analyzed with an eye towards the specifics of the situation. But saying corps have human rights? Constitutionally protected, with no need to study the particulars? That’s loony. It’s about time that people are marching on the street, keeping the crazies in check. The Broadway bongo drummers are heroes, as are the blue shirted cops keeping law and order. Lieutenant Bologna disagreed and resorted to violence to make his point. I support the cops on the beat: if Bologna had problems with the blue shirts, he should have brought it up during their performance evaluation instead of macing them and every patriotic citizen in reach who was holding a camera. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/626 "2011-10-09T20:23:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Hmmm. That’s kinda backwards, logically, if you know what I mean. First off, you might as well blame yourself. You became a chicken farmer. Why didn’t you do something you hated so that you could earn more money and pay more taxes and help the veterans? > > Or, I would say, if this is an issue that bothers you, why you don’t volunteer for veterans? I worked with the VVAW during the early 70’s. I worked with Goldstar Families for peace more recently. I did everything that I could think of to stop the wars. I don’t think it would be ethical of me to take a salary doing something I hated because I doubt I would be very good at an occupation I despised. If I’m going to take someone’s money, I believe in doing the very best job I’m capable of or I’m not giving full value. That’s stealing in my book. > [@](#): > > **Scylla** I think the government has plenty of money. Why not blame them? I mean, it seems silly to blame Exxon, for the lack of veterans’ benefits when Congress votes itself incredible benefits, salaries and perks. Even you seem to say that the government is not prioritizing properly. So, the inability the government do the right thing is not Exxon’s fault. You are correct that the government fails to prioritize. That does not change the fact that a significant number of large corporations fail to pay taxes or receive IRS rebates. > [@](#): > > **Scylla’s Book of Rules** Rule #1 People will say whatever they think you want to hear to get you to do what they want you to. It’s a human thing, not a liberal or conservative thing. No disagreement here. > [@](#): > > **Scylla** I don’t know what your generation is. I might think of you as “young” people, or you might be my senior, but I’m glad we agree. > > I however, don’t think that the answer is to blame the corporations for the fact we as a people are soft and stupid. Less money for schools because of an inequitable tax base leads to an uneducated populace easily appeased by circuses and mislead by soundbytes. A media bent on promoting the weapons of mass distraction while ignoring the relevant issues leads to ignorance. Constant branding of what were the commons leads to increased consumerism. Admittedly, these aren’t the only reasons (by any means) for our cultural decay but they’re a part of it. Just one example: The regulations on advertising that targets small children has been slashed. I have little respect for parents that plunk their kids down in front of the TV for hours but I’m sure not happy about bombarding said children with messages to buy Happy Meals either. > [@](#): > > **Scylla** I don’t think that’s true. Were talking about growth, a progression. It was certainly better for women than it was 50 years before that, and I don’t think things changed very much for gays until recently. A progression because people of color, gays and women demanded their rights. The majority didn’t grant them. The minority took them. Many nice white liberals urged MLK and other civil rights leaders to stop marching, to wait nicely and quietly for segregation to end. > [@](#): > > **Scylla** What happens when you slash the social services net??? > > It’s a genuine question, because I don’t know. You create a large disenfranchised population with no reason to maintain the status quo. You breed bloody revolution. You create the conditions where a tyrant can gain control because the people are desperate. When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. You read history. Surely you’re familar with the causes of the French Revolution. Or the conditions in Germany prior to WWII. > [@](#): > > **Scylla** What does that mean? Between who and who? Does this catchphrase actually represent anything good? The polls I’ve read indicate that the majority of Americans do not support the continued occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan. They do not want education or Medicare or Social Security cut. We’ve seen the Republicans kowtow to Grover Norquist and pander to the Tea Party. Hopefully the Democrats will come to realize that there is another group of equally pissed off citizenry and start working to protect programs that help those that truly need it while slashing wasteful military spending. It’s nice you have positive relationship with BOA. It was our business bank for years until they started nickel and diming to us to death. We fired them and closed our account. For over a year, BOA sent us statements showing a negative balance-with a five dollar transaction fee added on for sending us the statement on the account we had closed. > [@](#): > > Syclla Ok. I’m glad you had fun. Personally I would just rather go to a block party. I don’t need a veneer of social consciousness to disguise my good time. I don’t ‘need a veneer of social consciousness’ either but hey, if you can participate in something you do believe in and have fun in the process, what’s wrong with that? > [@](#): > > \*\*Syclla \*\*I don’t care about Austin public transport. I live in PA. I don’t expect you to care about Austin. The people at Occupy Austin do and they are working to change their community. What’s wrong with that? One of the most common complaints about the Occupiers is that they lack an agenda. I give you examples of what was agreed on at the very first meeting and all you can come upo with is that you don’t care about a city 1000’s of mile away. > [@](#): > > \*\*Syclla \*\* Krugman is a despicable human being, a liar, and a hack. And Rush is honest, has integrity, and has received a Pulitzer prize for his stellar reporting. Insert laughing hysterically emoticon here. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/627 "2011-10-09T23:10:28Z")
> [@jlzania](#): > > I worked with the VVAW during the early 70’s. I worked with Goldstar Families for peace more recently. > I did everything that I could think of to stop the wars. Good for you. Seriously. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it would be ethical of me to take a salary doing something I hated because I doubt I would be very good at an occupation I despised. If I’m going to take someone’s money, I believe in doing the very best job I’m capable of or I’m not giving full value. That’s stealing in my book. Heh. Nice try. You just tried to tell me that you’re not capable of doing something well unless you like it. I don’t believe that. I’m sure you do lots of things well that you don’t like, and I can’t believe that someone such as yourself has so little self- discipline that would not be good a job they didn’t like. Not all jobs are rewarding in and of themselves. I have one of those jobs that I don’t particularly care for, and I do it well… because it’s my fucking job. Same with lots of people. I doubt I’m any better than you, or that you couldn’t do the same.. > [@](#): > > You are correct that the government fails to prioritize. > That does not change the fact that a significant number of large corporations fail to pay taxes or receive IRS rebates. Grrrrr. This is a pretty generalized statement. Let me assume that this statement is founded on that MediaMatters and Forbes thing that was going around a year or two ago. Is that accurate? Well, that information does not come from the tax returns, it comes from the 10-k, and that does not tell you what the company’s marginal tax rate is. In 2010 for example, Exxon paid 9.8 billion in total taxes and duties to the US government and had only total US income of 7.7 billion. Exxon is **not** in a 125% tax bracket. For a lot of reasons , 2009 is a great year to pull data if you want to say “Corporation don’t pay much taxes.” You could cherry pick years like 2010 to say that they pay more than their fair share. Neither argument is actually accurate if you’re interested in the facts. Corporations pay a lot of taxes. Frankly, I think they could pay more, but I don’t think it’s because the tax brackets are too low. They are not. If anything, they are too high. What you really need to reform the corporate tax structure is a lower tax bracket, but the removal of all the subsidies and the credits that the government provides. The problem is that the government tries to have it’s cake and eat it too. It incentivizes certain behavior by offering tax credits. What this means is that the government is saying if you “X” than that will count as if you’ve paid “Y” in taxes. Nobody counts these things in a corporation’s tax bill. Some of these are just, some aren’t. Anyhow, like most other issues, this is a bit more complex than it seems at first glance. > [@](#): > > Less money for schools because of an inequitable tax base leads to an uneducated populace easily appeased by circuses and mislead by soundbytes. Im on the board of my daughters’ private Catholic School, and am privy to the budget. The public schools publish their budget. I published the figures on the SDMB in the past, but the public schools spend a whole order of magnitude more per student than my daughters’ school while providing an absolutely terrible education. They have plenty of money. It doesn’t get to the students. > [@](#): > > A media bent on promoting the weapons of mass distraction while ignoring the relevant issues leads to ignorance. > Constant branding of what were the commons leads to increased consumerism. > Admittedly, these aren’t the only reasons (by any means) for our cultural decay but they’re a part of it. > Just one example: > The regulations on advertising that targets small children has been slashed. > I have little respect for parents that plunk their kids down in front of the TV for hours but I’m sure not happy about bombarding said children with messages to buy Happy Meals either. > [@](#): > > progression because people of color, gays and women demanded their rights. > The majority didn’t grant them. > The minority took them. > Many nice white liberals urged MLK and other civil rights leaders to stop marching, to wait nicely and quietly for segregation to end. Ummm, the Civil War? > [@](#): > > You create a large disenfranchised population with no reason to maintain the status quo. > You breed bloody revolution. > You create the conditions where a tyrant can gain control because the people are desperate. > When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. > You read history. > Surely you’re familar with the causes of the French Revolution. > Or the conditions in Germany prior to WWII. Your original quote was about what happens when you “slash the social services net.” I don’t either of your examples had much of a social services net to slash. > [@](#): > > It’s nice you have positive relationship with BOA. It was our business bank for years until they started nickel and diming to us to death. We fired them and closed our account. > For over a year, BOA sent us statements showing a negative balance-with a five dollar transaction fee added on for sending us the statement on the account we had closed. So, based on this you want to organize a boycott of the company through an organized protest? > [@](#): > > I don’t ‘need a veneer of social consciousness’ either but hey, if you can participate in something you do believe in and have fun in the process, what’s wrong with that? If it tastes good, it’s probably not good for you. If it’s fun, it probably isn’t helping anything. > [@](#): > > And Rush is honest, has integrity, and has received a Pulitzer prize for his stellar reporting. > Insert laughing hysterically emoticon here. Rush doesn’t pretend to be something he’s not. Krugman does. The Pulitzer and the Nobel are a bit of joke. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/628 "2011-10-09T23:44:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > …If it tastes good, it’s probably not good for you. If it’s fun, it probably isn’t helping anything… Oh, you poor man. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/629 "2011-10-09T23:48:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, you poor man. Oh no. I eat yummy food, and have lots of fun. I just Don’t pretend it’s somethin it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/630 "2011-10-09T23:55:22Z")
No doubt that’s why everyone calls you Mr. Sunshine. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/631 "2011-10-09T23:55:50Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Im on the board of my daughters’ private Catholic School, and am privy to the budget. The public schools publish their budget. I published the figures on the SDMB in the past, but the public schools spend a whole order of magnitude more per student than my daughters’ school while providing an absolutely terrible education. They have plenty of money. It doesn’t get to the students. Does your daughter’s school accept every student that applies? Even the ones that have learning disabilities, are marginal achievers, discipline problems, or physical or mental disabilities? Does your daughter’s school provide services for all these problems? No? False equivalency. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/632 "2011-10-10T00:02:48Z")
[http://firedoglake.com/](http://firedoglake.com/) This cut on Maher is perfect for this discussion. PJ ORourke is like most righties who don’t understand what happened to the economy. They poke fun at the marchers because they can’t understand the turmoil in people’s lives. Grayson explains it well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/633 "2011-10-10T00:03:33Z")
Sending a child to a Catholic girls school will guarantee of a young woman of calm self-discipline, chastity and sensible shoes. By sheer coincidence, I met the dozen or so that weren’t. What are the odds? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/634 "2011-10-10T03:22:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Does your daughter’s school accept every student that applies? Even the ones that have learning disabilities, are marginal achievers, discipline problems, or physical or mental disabilities? Does your daughter’s school provide services for all these problems? No? > > False equivalency. If you ask and answer your own questions, I don’t think you are debating. Anyhow, the school district spends over 20k per student, not including special Ed. Since that receives grants and funding both federally and from the state which monies must be spent in that department, they are naturally separated, so it’s easy to back out. By comparison, my daughter’s school is under 5k. But, we don’t spend millions on superintendents and administrators. We are not in the top tenth in teacher’s salaries, but the bottom fifth in academics. So, no, the equivalency is not false… Once you stop answering your own questions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/635 "2011-10-10T11:22:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > So, no, the equivalency is not false… Once you stop answering your own questions. Float like a butterfly, sting like a… a… butterfly? You dodged my question again, so I will ask it again. Does your daughter’s school admit all students who apply, including those with learning disabilities, discipline problems, underachievers and the physically disabled? False equivalency. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/636 "2011-10-10T12:44:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Float like a butterfly, sting like a… a… butterfly? > > You dodged my question again, so I will ask it again. Does your daughter’s school admit all students who apply, including those with learning disabilities, discipline problems, underachievers and the physically disabled? > > False equivalency. No. Still not a false equivalency. The school district doesn’t conform to your list. I’m not sure you are using “false equivalency” well ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/637 "2011-10-10T12:50:39Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The school district doesn’t conform to your list. Clarify. Do they admit those with learning disabilities? Yes or No. Do they admit those that create disciplinary problems? Yes or No. Do they admit those who are academic underachievers? Yes or No. Do they admit those who have physical or mental disabilies? Yes or No. I will give you credit, you have tried to avoid outright lying thus far, but obfuscation is really not that much better. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/638 "2011-10-10T13:04:18Z")
I really have to fade from this conversation and get back to work. I did want to say that I realize I sounded like a unsufferable pompous prig with my jobs remark. Of course, I’ve had jobs that made me grit my teeth every time I drove to work and I still managed to do a good job. Also, you mentioned you had a daughter **Scylla**. I don’t have children but I do have a godkid that I love very much. I don’t want her to inherit what I think is coming down the pike unless drastic changes are made. I don’t thing she’s entitled to a life of luxury but I do think she deserves affordable renewable energy, a clean environment, reasonably priced college tution, safe food, affordable housing and a decent job if she seeks one. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/639 "2011-10-10T13:32:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Clarify. > > Do they admit those with learning disabilities? Yes or No. > Do they admit those that create disciplinary problems? Yes or No. > Do they admit those who are academic underachievers? Yes or No. > Do they admit those who have physical or mental disabilies? Yes or No. > > I will give you credit, you have tried to avoid outright lying thus far, but obfuscation is really not that much better. I’m not giving you any credit, because you are being a douchebag, the point you are seeking to make is moot as it cannot account for the discrepancy in cost per student, you are using “false equivalency” in a way that makes little sense, and i don’t play yes or no games. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/640 "2011-10-10T13:35:09Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m not giving you any credit, because you are being a douchebag, the point you are seeking to make is moot as it cannot account for the discrepancy in cost per student, you are using “false equivalency” in a way that makes little sense, and i don’t play yes or no games. More obfuscation. I will take that as a “no” to all questions. Plus, I got you to resort to name calling first. A win all around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=33)