# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/761 "2011-10-13T15:37:18Z")
I’m starting to think **Scylla’s** dad got him his job. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/762 "2011-10-13T15:37:51Z")
Babble babble babble, dude. I have no special definition of solvency. It simply means the zbity to meet long term fixed expenses. That’s the definition. Check it on in retold is if you like. I’m not making anything up or playing any games. A ponzi scheme can fit that definition, and several have done so for decades. If you like we can have a nice discussion about ponzi schemes, why they can last so long and what timely causes them to collapse. The fact is, I just provided two examples of ponzi schemes that remained solvent for decades. Your insisting that it can’t happen in the face of absolute evidence to the contrary, is a bit off even for a drug-addled hippy. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/763 "2011-10-13T15:40:01Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I’m starting to think **Scylla’s** dad got him his job. He’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/764 "2011-10-13T15:45:53Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > He’s dead. From shame? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/765 "2011-10-13T15:51:49Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > From shame? Cancer. He died horibbly. But no, he never got me a job. Thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/766 "2011-10-13T15:57:28Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Babble babble babble, dude. I have no special definition of solvency. It simply means the zbity to meet long term fixed expenses. That’s the definition. Check it on in retold is if you like. I’m not making anything up or playing any games. > > A ponzi scheme can fit that definition, and several have done so for decades. If you like we can have a nice discussion about ponzi schemes, why they can last so long and what timely causes them to collapse. > > The fact is, I just provided two examples of ponzi schemes that remained solvent for decades. Your insisting that it can’t happen in the face of absolute evidence to the contrary, is a bit off even for a drug-addled hippy. No, what you provided was two examples of Ponzi schemes that went undetected for years. The illusion of solvency is not the same thing as solvency. If you had it, youd bring it, and gloat. You didn’t. It is possible, I suppose, that the Madoff scheme started out solvent, and then devolved into a Ponzi scheme as Mr Madoff’s touted investment genius ran afoul of the harsh facts of arithmetic. But that’s not the same thing at all. > [@](#): > > …Check it on in retold is if you like… I have no idea what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/767 "2011-10-13T16:16:49Z")
Scylla’s goit it right, as per usual. “Solvent” just means that expected inflows are enough to meet expected outflows, so a ponzi scheme would be solvent forever as long as it is bringing in money from new subscribers at least as fast as it is paying out money to old subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/768 "2011-10-13T16:18:48Z")
Yes, and a bleeding man will live forever so long as new blood transfusions exceed blood loss. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/769 "2011-10-13T16:30:25Z")
That word is “investopedia” spellchecked. Sorry. Anyway, you’re not making sense. What illusion? If you are paying bills you are solvent. When you are not, you aren’t. Madoff’s scheme was a ponzi scheme from the moment he falsified returns, and the first subsequent withdrawal was made. That spanned over 20 years by the WSJ article I mentioned. That’s what he was convicted of, so I am pretty sure that you are in the minority with your position that it’s not so. By definition. He was solvent. Finally, it doesn’t matter because solvency is not a part of the definition of what makes a ponzi scheme. They can be solvent or not, again as per definition. So, you are wrong by definition of both ponzi scheme and solvency and also wrong by the conviction against madoff which I’ve cited (I can’t make a link at the moment, but you can google the article,) And I’ve also provided another example of a ponzi scheme that remained solvent for 3 decades. Any one of these four things is an absolute death sentence to your contentions. Please, we’ve known each other for ten years. Stop being obstinate. This is one of these times when you are just plain wrong. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/770 "2011-10-13T16:31:48Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Yes, and a bleeding man will live forever so long as new blood transfusions exceed blood loss. Yes. In terms of blood, such an individual would be solvent. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/771 "2011-10-13T16:37:45Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yes. In terms of blood, such an individual would be solvent. Well, this is indeed a suitably narrow, pedantic, Brickerian definition of “solvency”, one that completely overlooks the spirit of what it means to be solvent. After all, if I’m going broke, I can’t become solvent by robbing a bank; the law will claw back as much of that money as it can get its hands on. It’s one of the primary concerns of the Madoff bankruptcy: how do we get back the money and return it to those who were ripped off? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/772 "2011-10-13T16:52:12Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Well, this is indeed a suitably narrow, pedantic, Brickerian definition of “solvency”, one that completely overlooks the spirit of what it means to be solvent. After all, if I’m going broke, I can’t become solvent by robbing a bank; the law will claw back as much of that money as it can get its hands on. It’s one of the primary concerns of the Madoff bankruptcy: how do we get back the money and return it to those who were ripped off? No. There is no reason why robbing a bank couldn’t make you solvent. What one earth do you mean by the “spirit” of solvency? I don’t think there is any such spirit implied in the term. It’s a word with a pretty specific meaning, and there really is no moral judgement implied. You could run a blackmail and extortion scheme and be solvent, or run a halfway house for injured puppies and be insolvent. I hate this fucking whining and weaseling. Your wrong, bitch. Man up and move on. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/773 "2011-10-13T16:56:22Z")
If you have to give the money back, you weren’t solvent. Bitch. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/774 "2011-10-13T16:56:42Z")
I can shrug it off as a term of art, an arcane definition unavailable to the unsophisticated. In much the same way as “triple A rated” can mean “dead as a doornail”. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/775 "2011-10-13T17:05:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I can shrug it off as a term of art, an arcane definition unavailable to the unsophisticated. In much the same way as “triple A rated” can mean “dead as a doornail”. We all have our coping mechanisms. Who am I to criticize yours. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/776 "2011-10-13T17:08:37Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > If you have to give the money back, you weren’t solvent. > > Bitch. Duh! You have to get away with it to derive the solvency benefit, you dope. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/777 "2011-10-13T17:11:54Z")
Okay, Scylla. Whatever you say. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/778 "2011-10-13T17:13:46Z")
Hell, **Scylla** , you got to be right about something someday. Maybe this is your day. Still, might want to wait until Thanksgiving, see if any new facts emerge. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/779 "2011-10-13T17:24:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hell, **Scylla** , you got to be right about something someday. Maybe this is your day. Still, might want to wait until Thanksgiving, see if any new facts emerge. Yeah but the day that I am right, **and** I convince you. That’s cause for a jubilee celebration. Come to PA and I’ll buy you a beer. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/780 "2011-10-13T17:26:08Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Okay, Scylla. Whatever you say. The more you keep that in mind, the wiser you will be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=40)