# \#OccupyWallStreet **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851 "2011-09-19T18:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 97
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1921 "2011-11-10T06:05:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You dismiss the data in the fed survey because you don’t like the name. > > Are you fucking with me or are you sincerely this stupid? Naw, I’m pointing out that your cites are complete garbage in terms of proving jack shit, so I don’t actually give a shit. I dismiss the data because of what it is! It’s not hard numbers, it’s not even objective data on loan rates–it’s an opinion poll of senior bank employees. I mean, it’s marginally better than your declarations that because you worked for a financial institution, you just know more and can spout shit uncited. But only marginally. > [@Scylla](#): > > As opposed to before the banks were given the money or after they paid it back? Meh, they made their damn profits, they continue to profit on the income they made from it, therefore it’s the same damn problem. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1922 "2011-11-10T06:15:01Z")
And I say that because the attitude of “hey, we’re banks, and we’re going to go for the profits at the expense of taking actions that will increase the overall stability of the economy and benefit the average person” is kind of the actual goddamn problem here. I mean, basically what this means is that you had better hope that this doesn’t happen again within the horizon of political memory, because the banks WILL go under. Another TARP, after the way this one went, will be political suicide. And I sincerely hope to not have the opportunity to be proven right, but at this point I have no faith in the ability of our vaunted financial sector to do anything but pick the thing with the biggest profit, assume they can’t lose, and ride the economy into a fucking hole like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1923 "2011-11-10T12:23:26Z")
To be fair, it is their country, and they do let us live here. They don’t have to, you know. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1924 "2011-11-10T13:29:50Z")
The protests [are getting out of hand](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-students-in-clashes-after-joe-paterno-is-ousted.html?_r=2&src=tp&smid=fb-share): > [@](#): > > Just before midnight police lost control of the crowd. Chanting, “Tip the van,” they toppled the news vehicle and then brought down a nearby lamppost. When police opened up with spray, some in the crowd responded by hurling rocks, cans of soda and flares. They also tore down street signs, tipped over trashcans and newspaper vending boxes and shattered car windows. Oh, wait - those were Penn State students protesting Paterno’s ouster. OWS hasn’t even come close to behaving this badly. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1925 "2011-11-10T13:29:57Z")
Z: You blame the. Anks for being too loose, and for being too tight. You are so ignorant of what occured that you are not even aware of the general time for which you make your accusation. You don’t understand your own cites and you ignore the parts that disagree with you. You dismiss the benchmark measure of credit demand issued by an impartial branch of our federal government because of “bias” without even bothering to understand its methodology or bothering to view the 20 years of useful data that it’s supplied. You offer nothing to replace this, except your ignorant assertions on what you think… With your vast experience in IT or chicken farming, or what have you about, must have happened. Your debating style seems to be that as long as you refuse to accept it it didn’t happen. You lose. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1926 "2011-11-10T13:33:29Z")
Isn’t it a little early for you to be drinking, **Scylla**? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1927 "2011-11-10T13:47:11Z")
Well, we’ve established a few things about the crash: 1. No, Barney Frank didn’t cause it. 2. It had nothing to do with the Community Reinvestment Act. 3. Fannie and Freddie didn’t cause it either. 4. Credit was way too loose on real estate loans. 5. We have no evidence that credit was overly loose, prior to the crash, for loans unrelated to real estate. Perhaps such evidence exists, but it’s absent from this thread. 6. The banksters were given a great deal of TARP money, with the expectation that they would lend it out. Instead, they tightened lending standards on commercial loans so businesses had a harder time getting loans, intensifying the downturn. ( **Scylla** refuses to accept this, but as he says, “Hand waving is not debate.”) That’s a start, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1928 "2011-11-10T14:09:15Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Z: > > You blame the. Anks for being too loose, and for being too tight. Let’s just start here. Why the hell is it you think this is some kind of gotcha? Let’s say you wear a 32" waistband in jeans, and I offer you a choice: You can have 38"s or 24"s. Do I then get to laugh at you for saying this one’s too loose, this one’s too tight? > [@](#): > > You are so ignorant of what occured that you are not even aware of the general time for which you make your accusation. I am not arguing the same thing you think you’re defending. I’m accusing the banks of making deliberate, ongoing, and pervasive decisions. > [@](#): > > You don’t understand your own cites and you ignore the parts that disagree with you. I fully understand my own cite, and so what if I ignore the parts that disagree with me? I took the quotes from two people who ought to know something about loan demand, and that’s what I wanted from the damn news article. The fact that the article interviews other people doesn’t change the fact that the two people I quoted have the titles I mentioned and said the things that I quoted them as saying. > [@](#): > > You dismiss the benchmark measure of credit demand issued by an impartial branch of our federal government because of “bias” without even bothering to understand its methodology or bothering to view the 20 years of useful data that it’s supplied. I READ the methodology, ignatz. It’s a goddamn opinion survey. No hard data presented. > [@](#): > > You offer nothing to replace this, except your ignorant assertions on what you think… With your vast experience in IT or chicken farming, or what have you about, must have happened. And, y’know, quotes from people in the business. And a simple goddamn analysis of the fucking numbers as they stand. > [@](#): > > Your debating style seems to be that as long as you refuse to accept it it didn’t happen. As opposed to your “Bow down to the High Financier!” stance? > [@](#): > > You lose. In your mind, maybe. Fortunately, the rest of us don’t live there–seems a bit cramped from out here. 🆒 Also, for the love of crap, put the iPad down and learn to goddamn proofread. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1929 "2011-11-10T16:15:05Z")
Actually there was a commission that investigated the causes of the collapse., the Financial Crisis Inquiry Comm. It released its conclusions last year. It put the blame on banks, relaxed lending standards , poor and non existent regulation. It said Fannie and Freddie had little to do with it. It was bankers, greed and packaging mortgages. It was banks. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1930 "2011-11-10T23:28:11Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > Here is a link to the ACTUAL 99%, Occupy Wall Street Website. [http://occupywallst.org/](http://occupywallst.org/) > > Big win for 99%, Occupy Wall Street in Ohio. This is a MAJOR win for collective bagaining in America. And a major loss for the Ohio taxpayer. On another note, I [see](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/10/8739200-occupy-wall-street-protesters-interrupt-bachmann-speech) that the spoiled children who are dressing up and playing protester managed to disrupt a speech. No matter what you think of any particular politician, this kind of stuff just shows that they have no class and a highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement. As the Examiner put it, the protest isn’t about economic justice anymore (if it ever was). It’s about clashing with police and rescue workers when they show up to help after someone dies from a drug overdose. It’s about how many people in the encampments are learning about sexual assault awareness the hard way. > [@](#): > > Your protest has not been a failure. It has successfully raised societal awareness. Society is now aware that some people steal from food carts and vandalize them with their bodily fluids. > > Society is grateful that the black-clad anarchists among you in Oakland, Calif., liberated us all from the tyranny of Whole Foods with spray-paint and brickbats through windows. These are Obama’s voters next year. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1931 "2011-11-10T23:47:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > On another note, I [see](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/10/8739200-occupy-wall-street-protesters-interrupt-bachmann-speech) that the spoiled children who are dressing up and playing protester managed to disrupt a speech. No matter what you think of any particular politician, this kind of stuff just shows that they have no class and a highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement. I feel the same way about the Tea Partiers who shouted down Democrats at townhall meetings two years ago. I’m sure you feel the same about them… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1932 "2011-11-10T23:50:13Z")
Your link goes to an online article about the student disturbances at Penn State. You weren’t saying all that much anyway, but still. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1933 "2011-11-11T00:05:12Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > And a major loss for the Ohio taxpayer. > > On another note, I [see](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/10/8739200-occupy-wall-street-protesters-interrupt-bachmann-speech) that the spoiled children who are dressing up and playing protester managed to disrupt a speech. No matter what you think of any particular politician, this kind of stuff just shows that they have no class and a highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement. > > As the Examiner put it, the protest isn’t about economic justice anymore (if it ever was). It’s about clashing with police and rescue workers when they show up to help after someone dies from a drug overdose. It’s about how many people in the encampments are learning about sexual assault awareness the hard way. > > These are Obama’s voters next year. The Examiner was wrong. It was and still is about economic justice. A cop who beats up a prisoner who is in cuffs. Is that a problem with all cops? Most of us understand a few people do not represent the whole, nor do they change the message. That is fundamental logic and simple math. Alien to you but part of most people thinking. It may be that Obama gets even more votes than those people. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1934 "2011-11-11T00:15:16Z")
It’s always fun when **Mr Smashy** graces a thread, so I can remember what the phrase “the banality of evil” means in practice. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1935 "2011-11-11T00:18:27Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > … **Mr Smashy** … Hey, you’re right, it is a different guy! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1936 "2011-11-11T01:17:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I feel the same way about the Tea Partiers who shouted down Democrats at townhall meetings two years ago. I’m sure you feel the same about them… He was no doubt too fascinated by the “Blood of patriots” and “This is why we have a Second Amendment” signs and slogans to care about mere rude behavior. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1937 "2011-11-11T15:15:54Z")
[http://www.themreport.com/articles/big-banks-sued-for-allegedly-bilking-veterans-taxpayers-2011-10-05](http://www.themreport.com/articles/big-banks-sued-for-allegedly-bilking-veterans-taxpayers-2011-10-05) Banks ,especially the big ones, have been caught disguising bogus fees as legitimate and screwing over veterans and taxpayers. I just love bankers, they are so educated , so smart and such degenerate thieves. Yep, they need big bonuses to keep top talent. Without the money they might wind up with honest bankers. You can’t have that ,can you? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1938 "2011-11-11T15:32:06Z")
**Scylla:** Lord knows you have your hands full, but I was wondering if you had any other response to my last reply to you – post #1875 – or are we finished for the time being? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1939 "2011-11-11T16:24:38Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/11/calif-county-rebukes-jp-morgan-bank-of-america-over-fraud-settlements/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/11/calif-county-rebukes-jp-morgan-bank-of-america-over-fraud-settlements/) Bankers payoff court cases and try to keep[ their nasty double dealing out of the public. People without any values except making as much money as possible become finance bankers. Selling people financial instruments they know are going to fail is terrible. But betting their own money that they will fail at the same time is reprehensible. The constant is they always get their fees. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851/1940 "2011-11-11T17:06:06Z")
Someday I’d like to see a governmental entity NOT accept a settlement, and justifiably crush any institution that performs illegal activities. While I’m dreaming, I’d like a pony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=96) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/occupywallstreet/596851.md?page=98)