# Oct, Nov, Dec = 8, 9, 10?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 21, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780 "2001-04-21T12:37:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ThreeLeggedBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThreeLeggedBob)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/1 "2001-04-21T12:37:36Z")
The Latin roots for the last three months of the year (the 10th, 11th and 12th months) clearly indicate 8th, 9th, 10th. What gives?
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### Author:  [@FunkDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkDaddy)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/2 "2001-04-21T12:48:11Z")
It’s my understanding that two months were added to the original calendar. Specifically, July and August (named after two Roman diplomats - no prizes for guessing who).
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/3 "2001-04-21T12:49:22Z")
The Romans started the year with March. January and February were ignored, and not named for quite some time. I agree with this system, particularly February. I hate that month!
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### Author:  [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/4 "2001-04-21T14:12:59Z")
As **Annie-Xmas** said, the Roman calendar started with March an was based on agriculture. The first months were _Martius, Aprilis, Maius, and Junius_. The next six were numbered: _Quintilis, Sextilis, Septembris, Octobris, Novembris, and Decembris_. There was an unnamed period between _Decembris_ and _Martius_ when nothing much happened in terms of agriculture. Eventually, two months, _Januarius_ and _Februarius_ were added, to bring the number up to twelve. The Romans also had an additional period, called _Intercalius_ or _Mercedinus_, to make up the difference between the number of days in their calendar and the number of days in the solar year.
Julius Caesar eliminated _Intercalius_ and changed the number of days in the twelve months to have the calendar match the solar year of 365. _Quintilis_ was later renamed _Julius_ to honor him, and _Sextilis_ was later renamed _Augustus_ to honor Augustus Caesar (Octavian). One of Augustus’s big contribution to the Roman calendar was changing the number of days in many of the months. What triggered this was his desire for his month of _Augustus_ to have the same number of days as _Julius_. Nothing like a little ego.
Much of this information is from [Bill Hollon’s calendar site](http://www.greenheart.com/billh/index.html). You can go directly to the [Roman calendar page](http://www.greenheart.com/billh/earlyrom.html).
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/5 "2001-04-21T15:21:21Z")
uncle cecil has already addressed this.
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_160.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_160.html)
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/6 "2001-04-21T15:44:06Z")
Many places chose to keep the beginning of the year in March for many centuries. England, for instance, continued to begin the year in March up until 1752, when they adopted beginning the year in January and Gregorian calendar reform at the same time. This is why, for instance, you will sometimes see George Washington’s date of birth listed as something like “Feb 22, 1732 (Feb 11, 1731 old style)”. 11 days different than the calendar actually in use when he was born because of the Gregorian change, and a different year because it’s a date in February, and the older calendar began years in March.
A huge amount of calendrical background can be obtained from Peter Meyer’s site as well:
[http://serendipity.magnet.ch/hermetic/cal\_stud.htm](http://serendipity.magnet.ch/hermetic/cal_stud.htm)
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### Author:  [@FunkDaddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkDaddy)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2001, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/7 "2001-04-22T02:11:16Z")
Damnit, I wish I had the ability to retract a post. Thanks for fixing my month-stupidity. 🙂
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/8 "2001-04-22T03:13:07Z")
According to [this site](http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/khagen/Roman.html) we do not have a clear idea of exactly when the first month moved from March to January (although it preceded Julius Caesar).
The site has a number of other good comments on the Roman Republican calendar and the Julian reform, as well.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oct-nov-dec-8-9-10/62780/9 "2001-04-22T03:31:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \*
> \*\*The Romans started the year with March. January and February were ignored, and not named for quite some time. I agree with this system, particularly February. I hate that month! \*\*
I was born in February!! ☹ ::sniff:: :mad: