# Octaves for Dummies (meaning me) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111 "2015-06-09T23:29:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/1 "2015-06-09T23:29:11Z")
Okay, I’ve heard of octaves. They say Mariah Carey can sing in five of them, though most people top out at 2 or 2.5. But what is an octave? What does it sound like when someone goes from one octave to another when singing? Is it true that people mangle “The Star Spangled Banner” because it requires a range of three octaves , which is beyond most folks’ capabilities? How many octaves was the late Freddie Mercury able to manage? Thanks… ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/2 "2015-06-09T23:46:49Z")
I will not comment on Mariah Carey. Or Michael Jackson (supposedly 8 octaves); “The Star Spangled Banner” is an octave and a fifth (according to Wikipedia) and IMHO people usually start it too high or don’t warm up enough before attempting to sing it; Roger Taylor actually sang higher than Freddie Mercury, although he may have been singing falsetto; I could try to describe an octave, but I’ll let the technical guys do the better job, we’d be here all night. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/3 "2015-06-09T23:48:35Z")
The baseline for Octaves is the piano. See this chart. See how the letters repeat? starting from the far Left. Thats F1, 8 letters later there’s another F. F2 that’s the next octave and so on. [![](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fXPphy7ONe4/maxresdefault.jpg) ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fXPphy7ONe4/maxresdefault.jpg) [http://www.piano-lessons-made-simple.com/images/530xNxPiano\_Note\_Chart.png.pagespeed.ic.hcswOB9m77.png](http://www.piano-lessons-made-simple.com/images/530xNxPiano_Note_Chart.png.pagespeed.ic.hcswOB9m77.png) Notes by octaves. Octaves are numbered from left to right based on the piano keyboard Numbered 0 through 8 [http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/Images/uitlegweb.jpg](http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/Images/uitlegweb.jpg) a piano can only play A0 and B0 notes. The first full octave is C1,D1,E1,F1,G1,A1,B1, then C2 etc. notes are properly named by their octave. unless you’re playing an instrument that only plays in a single octave. then the octave for that instrument can be assumed. voices are arranged by octaves. a small graphic, but you can see how each voice, bass, baritone,tenor etc. fits Bass is the lowest,deepest voice and is to the far left. They do overlap. A bass can sing a few low tenor notes. A tenor can sing a few high bass notes. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/236x/57/98/30/579830756b57ffa50d88cd6ccda7d388.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/236x/57/98/30/579830756b57ffa50d88cd6ccda7d388.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/4 "2015-06-09T23:51:15Z")
An octave is a set of eight notes (in the western style of music notation). Basically, it’s when you repeat one of the do-re-mis: Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do. That’s a one-octave range. Two octaves are Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do. When talking about a singer’s range, you start with the lowest note they can hit easily as “do” and go upwards until they can’t hit a note easily. There are some subtleties, but that’s the main idea. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/5 "2015-06-09T23:54:12Z")
To boil down what Aceplace said, assuming you understand that music has notes, an Octave is 8 consecutive notes. That’s probably the simplest explanation you can get. I’m sure there’s some reason why it might be technically wrong, but without getting deeper into music theory than you want, it should suffice. Sit at a piano, put your finger on a key and go up or down 7 notes (so from the first to the last you’ve hit 8 keys) and you’ve played one octave. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/6 "2015-06-09T23:56:24Z")
crap. a baritone can easily sing a few high bass notes. Not a tenor. My bad. :smack: Tenors strain a bit to hit even a high bass note. LOL But they can do it when needed. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/7 "2015-06-09T23:56:45Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > An octave is a set of eight notes (in the western style of music notation). Basically, it’s when you repeat one of the do-re-mis: Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do. > > That’s a one-octave range. Two octaves are Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, Do. > > When talking about a singer’s range, you start with the lowest note they can hit easily as “do” and go upwards until they can’t hit a note easily. > > There are some subtleties, but that’s the main idea. When people are doing “scales,” are they singing in different octaves? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/8 "2015-06-09T23:58:19Z")
See the first couple minutes here: Is the older fellow singing in more than one octave? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/9 "2015-06-10T00:03:26Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > When people are doing “scales,” are they singing in different octaves? Yes, if they are trained and have the range. One of the tougher challenges in singing is to hit a note and then immediately hit the same note an octave higher. Old Come All Ye Faithful does that a couple times. It’s a challenge unless you got a good voice to do it. It’s not a big deal for a pro singer. Just another day at the office for them. Paul McCartney used to hit about three octaves if IIRC. He had this unbelievable range (for a man) when he was younger. Anyone that sings a Beatle song finds out quickly just how high Paul could go. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/10 "2015-06-10T00:04:45Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That’s probably the simplest explanation you can get. A simpler explanation (and not limited to a particular scale) is that an octave represents a factor of 2 difference in frequency. Every note has a single center frequency. For instance, “middle A” typically has a frequency of 440 Hz (but this can vary–the exact number is not important). The next A, one octave up, would then have a frequency of 880 Hz, and then next one 1760 Hz. In the other direction, we have 220 Hz and 110 Hz. These are all the same basic note but at different octaves. Due to the way our hearing works, we hear tones at octave intervals as being the “same” in some respect. We can hear the difference in pitch of course, but there is a sense in which we think of them as the same note. The other notes fall between these intervals, but the same basic principle applies. For example, B might be at 494 Hz, with the next octave up at 988 Hz, then 1976 Hz, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/11 "2015-06-10T00:17:39Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I will not comment on Mariah Carey. Or Michael Jackson (supposedly 8 octaves); > > “The Star Spangled Banner” is an octave and a fifth (according to Wikipedia) and IMHO people usually start it too high or don’t warm up enough before attempting to sing it; > > Roger Taylor actually sang higher than Freddie Mercury, although he may have been singing falsetto; > > snip. Does a falsetto not “count” in some way? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/12 "2015-06-10T00:25:55Z")
To keep it really simple. Most male singers are in octaves 3 or 4. Females 4 and 5. That’s the most typical range. Guitars are mostly in octave 3 and 4. Bass guitars octaves 2 and 3. a lot of instruments are clustered in the two octaves (3 and 4) on either side of middle C. There are exceptions, like a bass guitar, or some of the wind instruments that go very high. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/13 "2015-06-10T00:26:09Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Does a falsetto not “count” in some way? AFAIConcerned, hitting the note cleanly is all that matters. Talk to all of my Jr/Sr High School music teachers and they’ll give you a different story. And again, the technical guys will be back to elaborate, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/14 "2015-06-10T00:42:46Z")
For a quick reference you probably are familiar with, the first two notes of “Over the Rainbow” (“Some-where”) span an octave. If you’re REALLY interested in the subject, there’s an entire forum dedicated to discussing the ranges of popular singers [here](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/f1-range-stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/15 "2015-06-10T00:47:51Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > A simpler explanation (and not limited to a particular scale) is that an octave represents a factor of 2 difference in frequency. I think that (and the rest of the post) is probably more complicated than ‘8 consecutive (white) keys on a piano’ to someone that says ‘I’ve heard of an octave, but what is it?’ ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/16 "2015-06-10T00:55:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > crap. > > a baritone can easily sing a few high bass notes. Not a tenor. My bad. :smack: > > Tenors strain a bit to hit even a high bass note. LOL But they can do it when needed. What? No. The chart that you linked (which should be taken for general purposes only) shows a full tenth overlap between bass and tenor. Tenors should be able to sing easily and without strain to at least C2, preferably A2. Basses should be able to sing at least an E4, preferably F4. That’s a lot of overlap. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/17 "2015-06-10T00:56:15Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > For a quick reference you probably are familiar with, the first two notes of “Over the Rainbow” (“Some-where”) span an octave. > > If you’re REALLY interested in the subject, there’s an entire forum dedicated to discussing the ranges of popular singers [here](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/f1-range-stuff). Interesting–thanks. I was curious about Sam Smith, whom I used to think sang in falsetto but apparently doesn’t (and he has stated such). People seem divided over whether he’s a tenor or baritone. ? [http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t2765-sam-smith?highlight=sam+smith](http://therangeplace.forummotions.com/t2765-sam-smith?highlight=sam+smith) ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/18 "2015-06-10T00:59:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > a piano can only play A0 and B0 notes. The first full octave is C1,D1,E1,F1,G1,A1,B1, then C2 etc. No, if the lowest note is A0 then the first full octave is from A0-A1. (There’s nothing special about starting at C, it’s just that major scales etc. are usually taught that way to beginners to avoid dealing with sharps and flats.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/19 "2015-06-10T00:59:10Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I think that (and the rest of the post) is probably more complicated than ‘8 consecutive (white) keys on a piano’ to someone that says ‘I’ve heard of an octave, but what is it?’ Depends on the person! Just providing an alternate explanation that might work better for someone who is comfortable with scientific terms but unfamiliar with musical ones. To my ears, “8 white keys on a piano” doesn’t seem like an explanation at all, but tastes differ. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111/20 "2015-06-10T01:00:18Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Does a falsetto not “count” in some way? > [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > AFAIConcerned, hitting the note cleanly is all that matters. Talk to all of my Jr/Sr High School music teachers and they’ll give you a different story. And again, the technical guys will be back to elaborate, I’m sure. Whether falsetto is appropriate (“counts” is fairly meaningless) is going to depend on style, aesthetic, venue, orchestration, etc. In a lot of ensemble singing, falsetto is not only appropriate but desired under certain circumstances. In other ensemble singing, you’d never think of it. In something like pop music, it’s mostly an aesthetic choice. If you’re talking about opera, falsetto tends to be pretty narrowly applied–mostly in older (baroque) and hyper-modern stuff–and needs to be carefully balanced by whether it is audible within the orchestration. In a Handel opera with a countertenor role; sure. In Wagner; not gonna happen. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octaves-for-dummies-meaning-me/722111.md?page=2)