# Octopus has a point

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [March 31, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062 "2021-03-31T02:30:38Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\
**Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/61 "2021-04-02T17:02:36Z")

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Can he possibly pass **Clothahump** that for a while in the 00s had a new weekly one?

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**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\
**Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/62 "2021-04-02T17:14:53Z")

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[Man attacked by angry octopus.](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/octopus-australia-angry-scli-intl/index.html)

Now he’s gone too far.

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**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\
**Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/63 "2021-04-02T17:22:54Z")

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> [@octopus](#):
>
> And yet democrats are dumber. [Verbal intelligence is correlated with socially and economically liberal beliefs - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289614000373)
> 
> Which is no surprise since concepts children understand are beyond a large percentage of voting age leftists.

Republican Science proves it!

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**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\
**Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/64 "2021-04-03T03:30:05Z")

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> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> [Man attacked by angry octopus.](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/octopus-australia-angry-scli-intl/index.html)
> 
> Now he’s gone too far.

#notalloctopods

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**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/65 "2021-04-04T01:54:13Z")

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One only needs read the abstract to realize Octi is even fucking dumber than expected.

“My findings suggest that higher intelligence among classically liberal Republicans compensates for lower intelligence among socially conservative Republicans.”

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**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/66 "2021-04-04T04:19:15Z")

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If you could parse what you quoted you are the one who would feel stupid. Unfortunately, Dunning-Kruger effect proves true yet again.

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**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/67 "2021-04-04T04:37:34Z")

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> [@octopus](#):
>
> Unfortunately, Dunning-Kruger effect proves true yet again.

Yes, yes it does. I’m surprised you would point that out about yourself.

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**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/68 "2021-04-04T11:50:51Z")

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I assume you were responding to Chisquirrel, who quoted a line from a study abstract. I’m going to try to parse your logic steps.

1. Chi’s quote implies that the intelligence of classically liberal Republicans compensates for lower intelligence of socially conservative Republicans.
2. You say Chi interpreted the quote wrong, and it’s an an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You don’t say what was erroneous about Chi’s perception of the quote.
3. The Dunning-Kruger effect holds that one’s own incompetence leads to an inflated self-assessment. You’re saying that Chi is too incompetent to understand the quote, but you still don’t clarify what Chi got wrong.
4. D-K is a study on cognitive bias. A cognitive bias is a strong, preconceived notion of someone or something, based on information we have, perceive to have, or lack. What is Chi’s cognitive bias? That conservatives are stupid, can’t answer questions, and throw around terms they don’t really understand like “Dunning-Kruger effect”? For shame.

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**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/69 "2021-04-04T17:47:53Z")

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I look forward with great anticipation to Tentacles’ withering takedown of this analysis.

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**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/70 "2021-04-04T19:13:03Z")

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Chi is dumb because he’s making an assertion based on an inaccurate implication. He’s unaware of said dumbness because of brain wiring. Not his fault but it is what it is.

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**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/71 "2021-04-04T20:03:33Z")

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So, still nothing of substance.

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**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/72 "2021-04-04T20:10:41Z")

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“Verbal intelligence is correlated with socially and economically liberal beliefs”

Please, continue to argue your own cite is wrong.

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**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/73 "2021-04-04T21:07:51Z")

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> [@Sunny\_Daze](#):
>
> I look forward with great anticipation to Tentacles’ withering takedown of this analysis.

Meh, I’m still waitng for his takedown of this one.

> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> The study was done 7 years ago but the data used was from a data base that was over the years from 1972-2004. Also measure of intelligence was based on a vocabulary test of 10 words. They did attempt to adjust their finding according to covariates inclinding race (white black other), eductation , marital status and household income, and doing so cut the size of their effect by about 1/3. Best case scenario between the most strongly Republican vs the most strongly Democrat, a look at nearly 6000 respondents there is about a 1.26 pt IQ difference with statistical signifance 0.001\<p\<0.01. To my eye as a trained statistician this means absolutely squat. Modeling and correcting for covariates is never perfect, and with this small an effect and this large a sample size, a slightly misspecified statistical model can make random result appear statically significant. Particularly since other measures of conservatives such as voting pattern and opinions on issues seem to trend in the opposite direction (opposition to Homosexuality has a strongly statistically significant negative effect on IQ according to the paper). When you then add in the fact that the data comes from a span of years over which there has been demographic shifts, and what it means to be a Republican has radically changed, and has made no attempt to take time into account, I wouldn’t know how to interpret the results even if they were real. They seem to use their contradictory results to make some story about social vs economic Republicans, my guess it that any difference is due to the fact that the changes in social attitudes have markedly changed over the years, such that its really just a change in the measure of verbal intelligence over time (or else its just random garbage, still the most likely scenario) If I were reviewing this paper I wouldn’t recommend publishing it, but then I don’t know about the editorial policies of the journal, and given some of the other articles published.
> 
> [Spearman’s hypothesis tested on European Jews vs non-Jewish Whites and vs Oriental Jews: Two meta-analyses](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000130)
> 
> [Individual differences in preferences for cues to intelligence in the face](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289614000142)
> 
> I’m not sure that there is a very high bar.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/74 "2021-04-04T21:39:33Z")

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> [@octopus](#):
>
> Chi is dumb because he’s making an assertion based on an inaccurate implication. He’s unaware of said dumbness because of brain wiring. Not his fault but it is what it is.

You really love the negative attention, don’t you?

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**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\
**Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/75 "2021-04-04T22:39:32Z")

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Reread it fool. It’s not economically liberal in the sense of a command economy. It’s economically liberal in the sense of a free market economy. I can post the cites I can’t make you understand the words. Which isn’t surprising since even when the words are 100% clear they still aren’t understood when it’s inconvenient to do so.

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**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\
**Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/76 "2021-04-05T03:53:42Z")

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> [@octopus](#):
>
> Reread it fool. It’s not economically liberal in the sense of a command economy.

Are you _the_ fool or an ignorant? (it can be both of course 🙂 ) Most liberals like myself do favor mixed economies. BTW it includes also being in favor of a free market economy element.

> **[Command vs. Mixed Economy: What's the Difference?](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/033015/what-difference-between-command-economy-and-mixed-economy.asp)**
>
> A command economy is controlled by a government while a mixed economy is driven in large part by the private sector, with some government control and intervention.

So where you got that stupid bit about a command economy as if it was solely an economical liberal item?

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**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\
**Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/77 "2021-04-05T04:10:12Z")

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You’re adding a lot of words that aren’t in your cite to make your point. If you have that actual evidence, feel free to provide it.

ETA: For someone that claims to advocate for a free market approach, you sure have a lot of problems with the purchasers in free market exchanges making known their reasoning to not choose certain companies and products.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\
**Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/78 "2021-04-05T04:38:36Z")

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But at least octo still defends the right to discontinue products in a companies line and rebranding lines . . . oh wait…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\
**Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/79 "2021-04-05T16:48:39Z")

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@octopus 's interests lie solely in trolling the libtards. That’s why he rarely provides a cite for his claims. And when he does, it’s a paper done by a wet behind the years discredited racist. And he won’t address the thoughtful counter arguments presented because all this IMBECILE is capable of is shit-posting and running away like the spineless coward that he is. Honestly, what is the point of **octopus** anymore except to serve as a constant reminder that some forms of willful stupidity are beyond reason and repair.

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**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\
**Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/80 "2021-04-05T16:59:23Z")

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> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> @octopus 's interests lie solely in trolling the libtards.

And he therefore thinks he’s won an argument if he annoys people.

He doesn’t understand you win an argument by convincing people to agree with you. Octopus and people like him don’t understand that they have never won an argument. The only people who agree with the typical right-wing “argument” are those who already agreed with it at the start and just wanted to hear it again. Nobody new is ever persuaded to join them.

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