# Octopus has a point **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062 "2021-03-31T02:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/81 "2021-04-05T18:34:18Z")
Absolutely. When it isn’t done in order to placate the woke mob. Placating the woke mob is a never ending and dangerous act. Especially since being woke is nothing more than a rhetorical tool used to gain power. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/82 "2021-04-05T18:36:14Z")
You realize what I argue for, which is more freedom, is convincing and is what this country is founded on. It’s your insane and hypocritical ilk that are pushing for illiberal policy hidden in a sugar coated poison pill of so-called social justice. Which is why you folks engage in burn, loot, murder in order to terrorize folks into silence or compliance. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/83 "2021-04-05T18:46:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Absolutely. When it isn’t done in order to placate the woke mob. Placating the woke mob is a never ending and dangerous act. Especially since being woke is nothing more than a rhetorical tool used to gain power. So you feel it’s okay for a business to discontinue products as long as it’s for a reason that you approve of? If you don’t approve of the reason (as you’ve made clear WRT the ‘woke mob’), you feel they should not be allowed to discontinue something. Being forced to continue producing something against your wishes seems closer to communism than capitalism. ETA, That seems like a big ol’ fuck you to first amendment. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/84 "2021-04-05T18:49:43Z")
Then use cites that support your argument not some racist bullshit published by a discredited fucking child. And if you can’t resist the temptation, at least have the spine to admit you were wrong. And there is no “insane hypocritical ilk” that is after your “freedom”, you annoying fucking IMBECILE. JFC, is living in a constant state of fear what it’s like to be you? Seek professional mental help. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/85 "2021-04-05T18:55:38Z")
I didn’t say that. I said appeasement to the woke mob, like appeasement in general, never does anything but empower the bully. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Then use cites that support your argument not some racist bullshit published by a discredited fucking child. And if you can’t resist the temptation, at least have the spine to admit you were wrong. > > And there is no “insane hypocritical ilk” that is after your “freedom”, you annoying fucking IMBECILE. JFC, is living in a constant state of fear what it’s like to be you? Seek professional mental help. The paper I cited was not discredited. I don’t care what else a person says. I only care if the information I can find is accurate. Is the paper accurate or not? Whoever wrote it is 100 and 5% irrelevant. Constant state of fear? Were you present on these boards when Trump was president? Not a minute could go by without 124890 posts on OMB and Nazi Nazi Nazi! Yet, the current danger to the world is an ascendant China who’s government is the same government that Mao was in charge of. The same Mao that made Hitler look like an amateur. And what does the left say about China? Not a damn thing. They are too worried about Mr. Potato Head. And the reasoning is simple. As long as the corporate wing of the Democrats can make money they aren’t about to bite the hand that feeds them. You folks might even grow to love Citizen’s United before too long. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/86 "2021-04-05T19:12:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I didn’t say that. I said appeasement to the woke mob, like appeasement in general, never does anything but empower the bully. CRC said (And you quoted) “But at least octo still defends the right to discontinue products in a companies line and rebranding lines . . . oh wait…”. To which you replied > [@octopus](#): > > Absolutely. When it isn’t done in order to placate the woke mob. So, you said yourself that a company shouldn’t be allowed to discontinue something if their reasoning behind the decision is to ‘placate the woke mob’, that would be an arbitrary reason that you came up with. From that, it follows, that a business should not be allowed to discontinue a product if they’re doing it for a reason you don’t approve of. Or, said another way, a company should be forced to continue producing an item unless you decide they can stop. Or is ‘appeasement of the woke mob’ the only reason you have that a business shouldn’t be allowed to discontinue a product? And is that something you really want the government stepping in to deal with? Because, again, telling a business that they must continue making something even when they don’t want to isn’t how the free market works. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/87 "2021-04-05T19:16:58Z")
They can do it. But I’ll criticize it. I wouldn’t prohibit it. There is a huge distinction between what is legal and what is wise. The left does prohibit what they don’t like using violence even if the activity is legal. I’m not a leftist so I’m not about to burn down a police station or steal some shoes because a corporation is doing something for a stupid reason with their Mr. Potato Head. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/88 "2021-04-05T19:23:03Z")
At this point I can only assume you know what you’re saying and how stupid it sounds. As I alluded to earlier, to say that the left prohibits what they don’t like by using violence and burning down police stations is like saying that the right thinks Trump is still in office and thinks it’s okay to storm the capitol building. In other words, suggesting over and over and over that the loonies on the right are way out on the fringe, but the loonies on the left are representative of the entire party is arguing in bad faith. I assume you can act like a grown up for long enough to understand that the vast majority of the left doesn’t advocate violence or rioting or burning down police stations just like the majority of the right doesn’t advocate for what happened on the 6th. Or maybe you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/89 "2021-04-05T19:25:47Z")
What’s the estimate in damages for the riots, looting and mayhem over this summer? Where was the so-called FBI and other federal law enforcement in getting those criminals? How many received prison sentences? If the left wanted that criminality stopped they could have enforced the law in the cities and states controlled. They could have prosecuted the criminals. But nope. Left wing anarchists get to run amok. Was the situation at the Capitol good? Not at all, but when political violence is normalized don’t be surprised when there is political violence. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/90 "2021-04-05T19:33:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Were you present on these boards when Trump was president? Trump was an extant threat to the entire country. Even a conservative lackey like you knows it. I don’t know any liberal who isn’t concerned about the economic and potentially existential threat posed by China. And it has nothing to do with Mao but with the current leadership which is far more sophisticated and a far bigger threat to Western democracies. Nobody here is talking about Mao or Mr. Potato Head or Dr. Seuss except fear mongering conservatives like you who live in fear of their own shadow. Everyone else is dealing with existing dangers and facing new challenges, not living in fear of the distant past or dwelling on decisions made by toy makers and book publishers. Notice how little is said about Trump anymore? We’ve moved on except to stop to enjoy whatever just punishment may be coming his way. But not you. You just can’t move forward and can’t help but dwell on dead communists, failed ex-presidents, old toys and out of print books you’ve probably never even read. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/91 "2021-04-05T19:45:54Z")
I see you went with the “I can’t act like a grown up” option. There’s no good reason to debate with someone that doesn’t have anything to work with other than Fox News talking points. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/92 "2021-04-05T20:20:04Z")
Then why does the left fear statues of Lincoln and Jefferson? You clowns can’t keep your own bizarre woke narrative straight. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/93 "2021-04-05T20:21:59Z")
Why is the right scared of a potato? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/94 "2021-04-05T20:25:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Then why does the left fear statues of Lincoln and Jefferson? You clowns can’t keep your own bizarre woke narrative straight. - Why is the right so afraid of a single black man that they pressured the NFL into barring him from playing? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/95 "2021-04-05T20:28:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I only care if the information I can find is accurate. Is the paper accurate or not? [It’s not.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/52) Or at least any connection between the results in the paper and the truth of falsity of the statement “Republicans in 2020 have higher verbal intelligence than Democrats” is purely coincidental. ETA: looking over my previous review of this paper, I noticed I made a typo. I said adjusting for covariates reduced the size of the effect by 1/3, it should have read “reduced the size of the effect to 1/3” or in other words by 2/3. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/96 "2021-04-05T20:28:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What’s the estimate in damages for the riots, looting and mayhem over this summer? Where was the so-called FBI and other federal law enforcement in getting those criminals? How many received prison sentences? > > If the left wanted that criminality stopped they could have enforced the law in the cities and states controlled. They could have prosecuted the criminals. But nope. Left wing anarchists get to run amok. As usual, octopus, you have no idea [what you’re talking about](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/27/americas-protest-crackdown-five-months-after-george-floyd-hundreds-face-trials-and-prison): > [@](#): > > # America’s protest crackdown: five months after George Floyd, hundreds face trials and prison > > **Some protesters face stacked charges and threats of deportation; others have been charged with police assault with no reports of injuries** > > […] Since the killing of [George Floyd](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/george-floyd) in Minneapolis in May, millions of Americans have marched in cities big and small to protests racial violence and police brutality. The demonstrations have been overwhelmingly nonviolent, yet in many jurisdictions law enforcement has responded with force. Tens of thousands of demonstrators, activists and BLM supporters have been [arrested](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/08/george-floyd-killing-police-arrest-non-violent-protesters). > > More than five months since the start of the unrest, hundreds of these protesters have been slapped with [serious charges](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/16/felony-charges-blm-protesters-suppression-tactic) by federal and local prosecutors, according to researchers and a review of court data. Some protesters have faced stacked charges and threats of life sentences. Others have been charged with “assaulting” police officers where there’s no evidence of violence and no reports of injuries. Some arrested protesters have been transferred to immigration authorities. […] > > Research [has shown](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa) that the [vast majority](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/05/nearly-all-black-lives-matter-protests-are-peaceful-despite-trump-narrative-report-finds) of BLM-related demonstrations this year have not involved damage to property, harm to people or [ties to extremist groups](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-race-and-ethnicity-suburbs-health-racial-injustice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748). […] > > Still, federal prosecutors have doubled down on cases involving leftist protesters. From the end of May through October, federal prosecutors have filed more than 300 cases related to protests, according to [The Prosecution Project](https://theprosecutionproject.org/2020/10/15/tracking-federal-cases-related-to-summer-protests-riots-uprisings/) (TPP), a research group that tracks political violence. Of those 300, roughly 30% are in Oregon (where [nightly protests have received national attention](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/08/portland-protests-medics-police)), 9% in New York, 7% in Pennsylvania and 6% in Minnesota. Most are felonies. > > There are cases in at least 25 other states. […] So, far from lawbreaking protestors getting to “run amok” in “left-controlled” jurisdictions, there’s been a very punitive response at every level, from local up to federal. Contrary to the picture in octopus fantasyland, criminals in BLM protests (and apparently significant numbers of non-criminals as well) are getting prosecuted. And you know, octopus, you could have found out that information just as easily as I did; it’s no secret. But you preferred to literally just make shit up and pretend it was true, so you could score rhetorical points by blatantly cheating against the facts. That’s some Trumpian-level bullshittery there. I don’t mind people having different opinions from mine, but I do get kind of disgusted with those who don’t even try to find out whether their opinions square with the facts. If people could actually get banned from these boards for betraying the fundamental Straight Dope principles of fighting ignorance and acknowledging reality, your slimy ass would be first in line for the chop. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/97 "2021-04-05T20:34:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Then why does the left fear statues of Lincoln and Jefferson? You clowns can’t keep your own bizarre woke narrative straight. Criticism is not fear, you fucking IMBECILE. Honestly, what is the point of you anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/98 "2021-04-05T20:51:02Z")
There you go again with your pesky facts. Haven’t you learned by now that [facts aren’t allowed in the pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/774)? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/99 "2021-04-05T20:56:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But you preferred to literally just make shit up and pretend it was true Yeah, that’s why I (mostly) just ignored that comment. I didn’t even know how to respond to it. Half the protests were because of police violence the previous night and a lot, but not all, of the protests that turned into riots were specifically because of the police. I remember reading about a police technique for, essentially, inciting this behavior and I saw it happen in my own home town a few nights over the summer. The police basically corner the peaceful protestors, they can’t find a way out, tempers rise one person somewhere in the crowd (protestor or police) fires a gun or sets off a firework and suddenly there’s tear gas and fires everywhere. Then the next morning the news reports all the overnight riots but doesn’t go into detail. In my city (Milwaukee), all the protests were mapped out ahead of time. There may have been changes along the way for one reason or another, but everyone (including the police) mostly knew what was going to happen. Yet, I’d always hear things like 'why didn’t they just go home, they were supposed to be done protesting at 2:00 am, if they just went home instead of rioting…". I could really never get people to understand that the police set up roadblocks on the path back ‘home’. They were on their way home but the police wouldn’t let them leave. Of course, these are the same people I couldn’t get to understand that when they say “Can’t they do this else where, I need to get to work”, that’s exactly WHY they’re doing it. They’ve been dealing with police brutality their entire lives and, for that, they’re going to inconvenience you for 15 minutes hoping that you can help push some changes through since they can’t. And, yes, they did ask nicely first. Kettling…it was called kettling. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062/100 "2021-04-05T20:56:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You realize what I argue for, which is more freedom, is convincing and is what this country is founded on. It’s your insane and hypocritical ilk that are pushing for illiberal policy hidden in a sugar coated poison pill of so-called social justice. Which is why you folks engage in burn, loot, murder in order to terrorize folks into silence or compliance. This is a good example of what I posted. When you argue that Joe Biden is the leader of a movement to “burn, loot, and murder in order to terrorize folks” you and your fellow right wingers all love it. But every normal person listens to nonsense like that and says “those people really are stupid, aren’t they?” You guys are intentionally isolated yourself from the rest of the American population. And all I can say is - Keep it up. The more you guys are marginalized, the better off the country will be. And you guys are doing a much better job of discrediting your movement than any outsider could. So spread the word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-has-a-point/939062.md?page=6)