# Octopus here's your own thread to shit all over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550 "2018-06-06T15:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/864 "2020-12-11T00:09:00Z")
A bit of both, really. It gets the more placid, those who are looking for a peaceful protest, to stay home, leaving only those who are willing to put up a fight. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/865 "2020-12-11T09:25:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sometimes you ask a question not because you can’t come up with an answer, but because you want to see what the other person’s answer is. That way you can argue with what they actually believe, and not guess. Asking why the abhorrent are more qualified to determine your freedoms is obviously not an honest question. It’s either stupidity or trolling. Ditto this; he’s obviously referring to the CHOP in Seattle: > [@TroutMan](#): > > > [@octopus](#): > > > > Participating in a looting spree, arson spree, **occupation of a city center** , and violent assault is also wrong > > Hmmm, one of these things is not like the other. Sure, peaceful protest is fine, just don’t do it in a city center. > > It’s in an interesting view into the mind of someone convinced that every protest is violent. When you’re scared of someone because they are in a city center, I guess everything seems violent to you. > [@BigT](#): > > In your case, I’m aware of this argument, but it fails on two grounds: (1) It assumes that there is a single authority making the decision of what is acceptable, rather than something decided by a community and (2) it uses the slippery slope fallacy of assuming that, since one thing was found to be unacceptable, another will be. (2) is already happening. Having created laws against hate speech, both the UK and Scottish government are seeking to extend them. The latter is showing an alarming authoritarian bent. (1) it’s not being decided by the community, it’s decided by a minority of activist types who seek to bully everyone else into submission. I’m not fond of bullies. In any case, it doesn’t matter if it’s the government or the community that disapproves of your speech. Both are equally capable of being wrong. > [@BigT](#): > > If the idea had merit, then it wouldn’t just apply to speech. It would be “we can’t make anything illegal, not even murder. because then something I might want to do would be made illegal!” Aren’t you an American? I understood Americans learned about their constitution in school, along with how it’s the **greatest country in the world**!!1! Were you away the day they covered the 1st amendment, or too busy fantasising about [gender of choice] or something? > [@BigT](#): > > Of course the other violent actions by the state were about trying to shut people up, and thus abridge freedom of speech. Andy disagreed with you just above. Don’t get me wrong, what Trump did was bad for several reasons. I watched the video of the police clearing protesters for his church photoshoot, and it’s obvious the crowd wasn’t doing anything to warrant their treatment. We expect bad things from Trump. But like I said, I wondered what his purpose was. Fortunately, Trump has been booted out, so now you just have to worry that the _next_ populist will be more competent. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/866 "2020-12-11T09:49:17Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > > [@octopus](#): > > > > ATMB ought to be called clown world for some of the ridiculous proposals. If I demand to be referred to as a potato I wouldn’t expect that to be enforced by the moderators > > If you think that is anywhere close to the same thing as misgendering a trans person, you know nothing about this subject and should probably try to learn a little bit before you open your mouth and say something stupid. @octopus, I’m pretty sure they said we aren’t required to use wacky made-up pronouns, just a choice of he, she or they. What’s the problem with that? (And on that note, I prefer ‘they’. It’s bad enough being judged based on stupid gendered expectations in real life, I don’t want to get that shit online, too.) The suggestion to ban anyone who says ‘Democrat party’, on the other hand… like, seriously dudes, just get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/867 "2020-12-11T14:11:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > (2) is already happening. Having created laws against hate speech, both the UK and Scottish government are seeking to extend them. The latter is showing an alarming authoritarian bent. Oh, no! Whatever will we do if we can’t be as racist as we like while traveling abroad in Scotland? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/868 "2020-12-11T14:13:05Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Aren’t you an American? I understood Americans learned about their constitution in school, along with how it’s the **greatest country in the world**!!1! Were you away the day they covered the 1st amendment, or too busy fantasising about [gender of choice] or something? Just because something is “in the constitution” doesn’t mean you won the arguments. Slavery is also about the constitution; were you there when they covered it in school, or did you grow up in a Southern state where they didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/869 "2020-12-11T14:17:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The suggestion to ban anyone who says ‘Democrat party’, on the other hand… like, seriously dudes, just get over it. More like “dude”. No one except maybe the OP thought the term should be moderated more harshly than any other non-obscene snarl word. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/870 "2020-12-11T14:22:15Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > More like “dude”. No one except maybe the OP thought the term should be moderated more harshly than any other non-obscene snarl word Nuh-uh, there were millions of Dopers rioting in the streets. Cities being burned. They occupied the town square for months! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/871 "2020-12-11T14:24:10Z")
One has the right to demand others be compelled to share their personal perceptions. No one has the right to enforce the demanded compulsion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/872 "2020-12-11T14:43:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > should probably try to learn a little bit before you open your mouth and say something stupid. Too late ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/873 "2020-12-11T14:48:45Z")
And even the OP came back and agreed that it shouldn’t be a bannable offense. Sounds like everyone has gotten over it… Except for @DemonTree ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/874 "2020-12-11T19:00:32Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > More like “dude”. No one except maybe the OP thought the term should be moderated more harshly than any other non-obscene snarl word. Glad to hear it. I dunno what anyone found to talk about for \>200 comments then, but I couldn’t be arsed to read more than a few posts in, and now Discourse keeps popping it up every time I go into that forum. > [@Babale](#): > > Just because something is “in the constitution” doesn’t mean you won the arguments. Slavery is also about the constitution; **were you there when they covered it in school** , or did you grow up in a Southern state where they didn’t? I was on another continent. Apparently reading comprehension isn’t your strong point. Also a bunch of people in another thread said slavery is never mentioned in the US constitution, and the internet agrees. Perhaps your founding fathers were ashamed of the hypocrisy? > [@Babale](#): > > Oh, no! Whatever will we do if we can’t be as racist as we like while traveling abroad in Scotland? Yeah, it’s all just hilarious as long as _your_ rights are protected. Everyone from the Catholic Church to the UK Humanist Society to the Scottish Police Federation has criticised the proposed bill. Make sure you don’t mock any fundies while there, cause if someone takes offence you could find yourself in the slammer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/875 "2020-12-11T19:21:27Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I was on another continent. Apparently reading comprehension isn’t your strong point. Also a bunch of people in another thread said slavery is never mentioned in the US constitution, and the internet agrees. Perhaps your founding fathers were ashamed of the hypocrisy? I’m not American either, so they aren’t MY founding fathers; and while the constitution doesn’t mention slavery by name, it DOES enshrine it in US law (for example the 3/5ths compromise). I doubt they were self aware enough of the hypocrisy of saying “all men are created equal” while holding slaves to be ashamed of it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/876 "2020-12-11T19:22:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Also a bunch of people in another thread said slavery is never mentioned in the US constitution It isn’t mentioned by name until Amendment XIII (technically part of the U.S. Constitution), but other words are used that clearly refer to enslaved people. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/877 "2020-12-11T20:11:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Also a bunch of people in another thread said slavery is never mentioned in the US constitution, and the internet agrees. I’m not an expert on US history, but I know enough to know that our founding fathers and their respective system of governance were deeply entrenched in the issues of the day, namely, slavery. The Declaration of Independence used ambiguous language because of slavery. The reason rural voters have so much more influence in electoral college votes is slavery. Even the New Deal included a compromise to protect Jim Crowe in the south - the exclusion of domestic laborers and farm workers from those protections, in order to preserve the “racial order” of the South. (This reason was explicitly stated on the House Floor.) Even our freakin police force came from people creating an organized means of capturing runaway slaves. It may not be explicitly codified in the law as written, but there is almost no part of the US government that doesn’t have its origins, at least partially, in the oppression of black people. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/878 "2020-12-11T20:25:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not an expert on US history, but I know enough to know that our founding fathers and their respective system of governance were deeply entrenched in the issues of the day, namely, slavery. Some of them were slave owners, no? So they didn’t believe in their own principles enough to put them into practice personally. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The reason rural voters have so much more influence in electoral college votes is slavery. I hadn’t heard about that. What’s the link? > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Even our freakin police force came from people creating an organized means of capturing runaway slaves. And I have heard this, but every country has a police force, and half the states didn’t even allow slavery and AFAIK weren’t mad keen on catching escaped slaves, so how is it possible? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/879 "2020-12-11T20:26:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m not American either Where are you from then? Also, happy cake day! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/880 "2020-12-11T20:59:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I hadn’t heard about that. What’s the link? The 3/5ths Compromise. The argument was that electoral college votes should be distributed according to each state’s population. This would give northern states the advantage because they had the most voters. The South argued that, even though they couldn’t vote, slaves should be counted as voters. So the compromise was to count each slave as 3/5 of a person. Northern states were hardly innocent when it came to the oppression of black people. They did return slaves from other states. The issue with the police in the US is there was historically strong overlap between members of the police and the KKK. My own grandfather was Sherriff of his town and a member of the KKK. And we live in Michigan. (I also had another grandfather who was not only KKK but according to family lore had lynched people.) This stuff runs deep. It’s deeply entrenched in the identity of countless people. It has endured for generations. Racism isn’t just a casual thing here, it often is a way of life, a form of social bonding, a fundamental part of one’s identity. Literally the first thing out of my grandfather’s mouth when I first met him at age twelve was “You ain’t dating no n\*\*\*\*\*s are ya?” In case you wondered why this country is so fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/881 "2020-12-11T21:38:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I doubt they were self aware enough of the hypocrisy of saying “all men are created equal” while holding slaves to be ashamed of it, though. Oh, they were all aware of the hypocrisy but money has a way of leading people to interesting conclusions. The debates at the time demonstrated it aptly. The Southerners weren’t ashamed of the practice at all and it was heavily in the financial interests of the landed gentry to keep the practice going, and the Northerners were thinking of the Greater Good of not dividing the Union from the get-go by insisting on anything. Some of the Founding Fathers knew the question would have to be dealt with eventually and feared it would lead to violence between the states but punted it down the road, anyway. The “funny” thing is if the colonies hadn’t revolted, it’s quite likely Parliament would have outlawed the practice in North America decades earlier than it actually happened and at much lower human cost. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/882 "2020-12-11T21:57:23Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The 3/5ths Compromise. The argument was that electoral college votes should be distributed according to each state’s population. This would give northern states the advantage because they had the most voters. The South argued that, even though they couldn’t vote, slaves should be counted as voters. So the compromise was to count each slave as 3/5 of a person. But there’s no slaves now. Surely they adjust the electoral college votes to reflect the states’ current populations? > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Northern states were hardly innocent when it came to the oppression of black people. They did return slaves from other states. The issue with the police in the US is there was historically strong overlap between members of the police and the KKK. My own grandfather was Sherriff of his town and a member of the KKK. And we live in Michigan. (I also had another grandfather who was not only KKK but according to family lore had lynched people.) This stuff runs deep. It’s deeply entrenched in the identity of countless people. It has endured for generations. Racism isn’t just a casual thing here, it often is a way of life, a form of social bonding, a fundamental part of one’s identity. That’s _super_ fucked up. And you’re not even old, you’re about my age IIRC. Someone who lynched people could still be alive. 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/883 "2020-12-11T22:03:26Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But there’s no slaves now. Surely they adjust the electoral college votes to reflect the states’ current populations? So you’d think, but no. They capped it out a long time ago, so that states like Wyoming are VASTLY overrepresented not just in the senate, where this is intentional, but in the house, too. Oops, wrong link: > [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550.md?page=45)