# Octopus here's your own thread to shit all over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550 "2018-06-06T15:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1084 "2021-01-07T02:25:29Z")
Whataboutism and “OMG hYpOCrasy!” is really the last argument the right has, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1085 "2021-01-07T02:27:07Z")
Downplaying your side’s contributions to the normalization of political violence accomplishes what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1086 "2021-01-07T02:28:53Z")
There you go! ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1087 "2021-01-07T02:30:09Z")
Good question Trump voter. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1088 "2021-01-07T02:35:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > it would be intellectually honest to agree with others who actually promote such things instead of mocking them when it’s your side behaving illegally and embarrassingly. It would be intellectually honest to acknowledge that occupying capitol buildings, forcing the vice president of the United States and others to flee the halls of government is of a wildly different degree and importance than any protest/riot/violence/looting that happened this summer. Others have already pointed out that very few supported the violence, but even for those who do, there would be nothing hypocritical about standing for those actions but being against, you know, storming the capitol. It’s not about the motivation behind the action, it’s that violence against governmental institutions is an assault against the core of America, in a degree that violence against private businesses, bad as it might be, does not hold a candle to. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1089 "2021-01-07T02:38:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Look, I understand the anger and frustration that led to the protests. I don’t understand that looting shoes and TVs solves racial problems or problems with law enforcement. Nobody AFAICT is claiming, or has ever claimed, that it does. > [@octopus](#): > > I also don’t understand all the virtue signalling that says it’s ok to gather in vast crowds in a pandemic that’s killing 100s of thousands of people if not millions as long as the cause is claimed to be just. It’s called “medical facts”, and it has nothing to do with the justice or otherwise of the cause. The epidemiological impact of moderate numbers of people (generally not “vast crowds”) gathering outdoors, mostly if not all distanced and mostly if not all masked, on COVID-19 spread has been shown to be very small if not entirely negligible. Now, what would be inconsistent or dishonest would be if liberals were widely advocating for or approving of unmasked high-density indoor gatherings in the name of liberal causes, and only condemning them when conservatives engage in them. But that’s not the case. Liberals have been supporting the rights of everybody to engage in public protest activities in a manner that complies with public-health protocols, and discouraging everybody from engaging in activities that blatantly violate those protocols, no matter what they may think about the “justice” or otherwise of the cause inspiring the activities. Consistency and honesty: check and check. > [@octopus](#): > > At this point, it would be nice if the left could shed the progressives and radical anarchists and the right could shed the Kraken conspiracy loons and the religious fundamentalist More false equivalences on your part. The vast majority of progressives, and even most people who could fairly be described as “radical anarchists”, are infinitely more rational and aware of social and political reality than the right-wing “Kraken conspiracy loons” whom you’re trying to sweep under your bothsidesist rug. Even a significant subset of American religious fundamentalists are more rational and fact-aware than the right-wing conspiracy loons, although of course their Venn diagram shows substantial overlap of the circles. > [@octopus](#): > > and a nice rational party could be formed You deliberately cast a vote for the re-election of Donald Trump a bare two months ago, and you sit here now trying to persuade us that you’re in favor of encouraging rationality in US electoral politics? What part of “you voluntarily voted for a notoriously incorrigible liar, fantasist, grifter, vicious slanderer, cheat and irrationalist” are you still failing to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1090 "2021-01-07T03:12:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Because if you are going to disagree with political violence and mob violence **it carries much more weight if you are consistent** ly against it and not for it sometimes and against it at others. That is true, but it also doesn’t answer my question. How is pointing out hypocrisy of **other** members in other contexts in any way related to **your** main argument that mob violence in this specific instance is wrong? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1091 "2021-01-07T03:17:31Z")
Because the conversation takes place in a larger context. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1092 "2021-01-07T03:24:55Z")
Let’s say it’s you and me conversing. Pretend that I supported mob violence earlier this year. You argue that today’s protests are wrong because they are a form of mob violence and mob violence is wrong. I agree that the protests today are wrong because it’s mob violence and mob violence is wrong. Why on earth do you think it would be _constructive_ to then point out how, during the BLM protests earlier this year, I argued that mob violence was right? What do you stand to gain from such a post? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1093 "2021-01-07T03:26:01Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake, no it doesn’t. You know that and everyone knows you know that. Stop trolling, stop whatabouting. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1094 "2021-01-07T03:33:29Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake, no it doesn’t. You know that and everyone knows you know that. Stop trolling, stop whatabouting. Shush! > [@Max\_S](#): > > Let’s say it’s you and me conversing. Pretend that I supported mob violence earlier this year. > > You argue that today’s protests are wrong because they are a form of mob violence and mob violence is wrong. I agree that the protests today are wrong because it’s mob violence and mob violence is wrong. > > Why on earth do you think it would be _constructive_ to then point out how, during the BLM protests earlier this year, I argued that mob violence was right? What do you stand to gain from such a post? > > ~Max It would depend on why you supported the previous mob violence. Do you not understand continuity or context? When you debate someone or have a discussion it’s about how one thinks as much as what one thinks. If you think end justifies means you come at life with a different perspective then process is important. The constructive aspect occurs if one re-examines why they think a particular why and why what they thought was right is not right. The reason there is so much anger and hypocritical pushback against the comparison is the comparison is making these fools rightfully uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1095 "2021-01-07T03:37:41Z")
Silence yourself, Moron! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1096 "2021-01-07T03:38:42Z")
This is my thread… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1097 "2021-01-07T03:41:02Z")
It’s a thread for pointing and laughing at you. If you had any sense you’d shut your blather-hole. But you like being an asinine supporter of traitors. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1098 "2021-01-07T03:42:32Z")
So go stick a cactus up you ass. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1099 "2021-01-07T03:43:30Z")
Of course you have no cite of that, you slandering fool! That’s how you sad folks operate. Make an unfounded assertion and preen in fake moral superiority. That’s boring isn’t it? Try engaging in an honest discussion instead of being despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1100 "2021-01-07T03:44:33Z")
I would say it’s ironic how well you describe yourself, but I’m sure you know that… trollololol lolol lolol ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1101 "2021-01-07T03:47:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Do you not understand continuity or context? When you debate someone or have a discussion it’s about how one thinks as much as what one thinks. I’m afraid you will have to spell it out for me, if I am ignorant of these concepts, I am ignorant of my ignorance. At best, I could see you asking _politely_ why I agree with you this time when I disagreed with you last time, out of curiosity to understand my way of thinking. But that would not further _your_ argument, it would not attack _my_ argument (which is identical to yours), and therefore it would not be relevant to the narrow topic under consideration: today’s protesting. A private message would be more appropriate, IMO. Not only will it avoid a hijack, it also spares me the embarrassment of admitting that I was wrong in front of the entire board. And don’t write me your theory about me using ends-justifies-the-means logic, that’s poison in the well. If you’re legitimately interested, ask and wait for my answer. This is, I should add, affording you every benefit of the doubt. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1102 "2021-01-07T03:50:07Z")
Cite for you being a blithering idiot who embarrasses yourself constantly? Your posts are my cite. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550/1103 "2021-01-07T04:00:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s not meant to be destructive. It’s to point out that calling someone a Nazi for advocating free speech and someone a White supremacist for advocating following a democratic process instead of mob violence is in fact dishonest and counterproductive. > > It’s like warning folks that appeasement only emboldens the violent, there is no pleasure in seeing the violent become emboldened. What’s your position on calling someone a Nazi or a White Supremacist for acting like a Nazi or a White Supremacist? Because “advocating free speech” and “advocating following a democratic process” _can_ be (and sometimes _are_) dishonest characterizations of “acting like Nazis and White Supremacists.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octopus-heres-your-own-thread-to-shit-all-over/815550.md?page=56)