# Octuplet Mom: How ethical are fertility treatments for someone with 6 kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764 "2009-01-30T19:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/21 "2009-01-30T22:16:36Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Does the doctors hypocratic oath extend down to them? 🙂 Hippocratic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/22 "2009-01-30T22:19:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > There are plenty of things that are maybe legal, but still viewed as not a totally moral/right/whatever choice. Very true. And I don’t know enough about the family in question to know if the mother made an unethical/immoral/irresponsible/whatever choice in choosing to have these eight babies. If I had to bet one way or the other, knowing no more than I know now, I’d probably bet on “irresponsible”, with a covering bet on “crazy as a loon”. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/23 "2009-01-30T22:26:56Z")
Now this woman has two basketball teams with four on the bench. (!) WTF? Should there be a standardized math exam for people who want this many kids? This much money per month income \< what the kids cost = unhappy kids ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/24 "2009-01-30T22:30:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Exactly. The idea of making policy about this is what I’m not comfortable with. > > I agree that voluntarily becoming a single parent of fourteen children under ten years old seems absolutely batshit insane, but I don’t like the idea of setting arbitrary rules about who can and who can’t have fertility treatments, based only on their current family size and/or socioeconomic circumstances.\ I’m actually quite comfortable with that. If you already have six kids, you don’t need fertility treatments for more kids - if you can’t have them on your own the old-fashioned way, you can’t have them. It’s not like we’re running out of humans. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/25 "2009-01-30T22:34:54Z")
I don’t think it’s ethical, but I don’t think this is real, either because of the scantity of details with something like this that is less than a week away from making history if all eight survive. I predict it being revealed as a hoax by Valentines day. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/26 "2009-01-30T22:35:02Z")
But what if you can pay for them and they will be no burden on society, and you have an amazing extended family that will help you the whole way? Personally I believe any fertility treatments are immoral, but if you allow some where do you draw the line? ETA: I was responding to\*\* featherlou\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/27 "2009-01-30T22:36:12Z")
I posted this in the GQ thread, but a doctor quoted in the CBS News article suggested that she took the fertility drugs on her own (i.e., not under medical supervision). I really can’t imagine how much it will cost them to raise this many kids. The diapers and baby food alone are going to be ruinously expensive. Even if you assume that they use cloth diapers, they will have to be doing multiple loads of laundry a day. But then assuming the grandfather is in Iraq, that leaves only two people; how are the mother and grandmother going to manage? And surely she can’t breast feed all those kids, so won’t they need to buy formula? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/28 "2009-01-30T22:44:18Z")
I wondering if it’s the \*grandparents \*who are a little off their rockers. [One article](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090130/ap_on_re_us/octuplets;_ylt=Apx73x2LoQheg7bsSfrvMJ.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFhMDVjZjk0BHBvcwM1BHNlYwN5bl9tb3N0X3BvcHVsYXIEc2xrA2ZhbWlseW9jdHVwbA--) I read today said, “‘We have a huge house, not here,’ said the man, who would only identify himself as Ed. ‘You are never going to know where it is.’” Something just seems…off…with a couple who would encourage and support their daughter in this kind of activity and then hide her from reporters. Maybe I’m just getting paranoid in my old age, but my first thought was one of those Fundamentalist Christian breeding cults. > [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > I noticed that neither of the articles mentioned the birth weight of the babies. The same article I linked to says, “The [sic] were born nine weeks premature and ranged between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces at birth.” That’s both more developed and a higher birth weight than WhyBaby, who’s doing just fine. They have about a 70% chance of having no disabilities at all, maybe a little less due to being multiples. But based on size and gestation alone, there isn’t much of a reason to worry. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/29 "2009-01-30T23:01:27Z")
The CBS News article says that the grandfather is native to Iraq, so I doubt they are fundamentalist Christians, although I suppose it’s possible. Joke: Perhaps they intend to single-handedly repopulate Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/30 "2009-01-30T23:08:20Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The same article I linked to says, “The [sic] were born nine weeks premature and ranged between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces at birth.” That’s both more developed and a higher birth weight than WhyBaby, who’s doing just fine. They have about a 70% chance of having no disabilities at all, maybe a little less due to being multiples. But based on size and gestation alone, there isn’t much of a reason to worry. I stand corrected. I thought I had read a statistic about low birth weight babies having a much greater probability than your cite of developmental disabilities. GD, is of course, not the place for unfounded speculation. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/31 "2009-01-30T23:12:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The CBS News article says that the grandfather is native to Iraq, so I doubt they are fundamentalist Christians, although I suppose it’s possible. > > Joke: Perhaps they intend to single-handedly repopulate Iraq? Iraq has (had?) a group of Christians called Assyrians, although admittedly they weren’t who I was thinking of. But there are Christians native to Iraq. But I will also admit that it’s not only Fundamentalist Christians who are whackjobs, they could be completely secular whackjobs, it’s true. Or even just patient parents faced with doing their best to support a daughter with an odd and expensive hobby, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/32 "2009-01-30T23:15:02Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Maybe I’m just getting paranoid in my old age, but my first thought was one of those Fundamentalist Christian breeding cults. Mine too, but apparently the “quiverfull” movement avoids fertility treatments the same way they avoid birth control. Their whole schtick is “we just leave everything up to God”. So if the reports are true she’s a completely different variety of loony. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/33 "2009-01-30T23:17:40Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > But what if you can pay for them and they will be no burden on society, and you have an amazing extended family that will help you the whole way? > > Personally I believe any fertility treatments are immoral, but if you allow some where do you draw the line? > > ETA: I was responding to\*\* featherlou\*\* Why do you believe any fertility treatments are immoral? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/34 "2009-01-30T23:43:38Z")
If all the details that have come out are true, I can’t imagine that this woman or her parents are sane enough to raise 14 freakin’ babies and kids. I hope there’s some kind of investigation into their living situation because popping out babies like this is not normal or healthy. This is like animal hoarding except with babies. I suspect the idea to implant 8 embryos was driven more by the mother than the physician. Perhaps after being informed that 8 eggs had been successfully fertilized in vitro, she insisted that instead of going with standard protocol and inserting only 2, that he put them all in because they were “babies” at that point. Not putting them all in would consitute “killing” them, in her mind (I speculate). Is this an adequate defense for the physician? I don’t know. If someone is crazy enough to get fertility treatments even while having 6 young kids, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is how it went down. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/35 "2009-01-31T00:07:46Z")
She’s going to recoup the cost of raising those 14 kids by becoming a sponsor for Jiffy Pop. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/36 "2009-01-31T00:11:36Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I suspect the idea to implant 8 embryos was driven more by the mother than the physician. Perhaps after being informed that 8 eggs had been successfully fertilized in vitro, she insisted that instead of going with standard protocol and inserting only 2, that he put them all in because they were “babies” at that point. Not putting them all in would consitute “killing” them, in her mind (I speculate). Unfortunately, there are a lot of fertility docs out there who have no problem with transferring large number of embryos at once. The reasoning is that then you get more bang for your buck, since each cycle of IVF is so expensive, and then they can claim high success rates for fewer attempts than if they were being, you know, responsible! ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/37 "2009-01-31T00:18:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I really can’t imagine how much it will cost them to raise this many kids. The diapers and baby food alone are going to be ruinously expensive. Even if you assume that they use cloth diapers, they will have to be doing multiple loads of laundry a day. But then assuming the grandfather is in Iraq, that leaves only two people; how are the mother and grandmother going to manage? And surely she can’t breast feed all those kids, so won’t they need to buy formula? They’ll be just fine. Companies will provide them with donations to get publicity. TLC and Discovery Health will want to film the family. That may very possibly be the reason for this: since it sounds like the mom doesn’t want to work a real job, she might have come up with this insane plan to cash in on the attention it would bring her. However, I do think it would be sort of awesome if nobody gave them any handouts and they actually DID have to try to take care of all those kids themselves. That will never actually happen, because if nothing else people will feel sorry for the kids and help out, but at least it would be a warning to the next reckless idiot not to do something like this! ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/38 "2009-01-31T00:28:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why do you believe any fertility treatments are immoral? The whole “we just leave everything up to God” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/39 "2009-01-31T00:37:15Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > That will never actually happen, because if nothing else people will feel sorry for the kids and help out… It’s just like kittens. People will want to help out when they’re tiny and cute, but nobody wants to donate money to a family of 14 surly teens. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764/40 "2009-01-31T00:42:59Z")
Is she trying to catch up to the Duggars? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/octuplet-mom-how-ethical-are-fertility-treatments-for-someone-with-6-kids/483764.md?page=3)