# Odd opinions from Chaz Bono - You'd think he'd be more sensitive and not so dismissive of women **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 20, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871 "2012-07-20T18:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/1 "2012-07-20T18:42:52Z")
I was reading about Annette Benning’s trans son and his[set to last year](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/transgender-son-warren-beatty-annette-bening-slams-chaz/story?id=14983741#.UAmS8UQvEZ4) with with Chaz Bono. Bono’s opinions kind of surprised me. You’d think given what he’s been through that he would be more open and less dismissive of women. > [@](#): > > Stephen Ira Beatty slams Bono for saying that transgenderism is “a birth defect, like a cleft palate,” and that “being male and having breasts is about the worst thing I could imagine.” He attacks Bono for saying, “I never understood women before . . . but I had a tolerance for women that I don’t have now . . . There is something in testosterone that makes talking and gossiping really grating.” > > Beatty, who says he has undergone hormonal treatment, responded, “I don’t want any rich white trans guy . . . telling the media that testosterone made him a misogynist . . . he has some deep-seated misogyny to work through.” > > Bono’s publicist declined to comment. Beatty did not respond to an email. > > Bono, 42, underwent gender reassignment from 2008 to 2010, legally changing his name from Chastity to Chaz on May 7. In October, he was honored with a “Respect” award from the Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network (GLSEN) for being a role model for teens. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/2 "2012-07-20T19:03:34Z")
I’m not finding any link in that article to Chaz Bono’s actual comments, and I’m always a little suspicious of quotes full of ellipses. Does anybody know when/where the alleged misogynistic comments were made? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/3 "2012-07-20T19:11:55Z")
[ > [@Chaz Bono](#): > > “I don’t think the way I grew up had any effect on this issue,” Chaz said. “There’s a gender in your brain and a gender in your body. For 99 percent of people, those things are in alignment. For transgender people, they’re mismatched. That’s all it is. It’s not complicated, it’s not a neurosis. It’s a mix-up. It’s a birth defect, like a cleft palate.” ]([http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/fashion/08CHAZ.html?\_r=4&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/fashion/08CHAZ.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all)) > [@](#): > > “Jenny and I had to relearn how to be together,” Chaz said. “I never really understood women before, to be honest, but I had a tolerance for women that I don’t have now.” > > I laughed. Chaz blushed. > > “No, really. There is something in testosterone that makes talking and gossiping really grating. I’ve stopped talking as much. I’ve noticed that Jen can talk endlessly.” He shrugged. “I just kind of zone out.” NYT ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/4 "2012-07-20T19:17:09Z")
> [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > I’m not finding any link in that article to Chaz Bono’s actual comments, and I’m always a little suspicious of quotes full of ellipses. Does anybody know when/where the alleged misogynistic comments were made? It’s from the [video documentary](There is something in testosterone that makes talking and gossiping really grating)“Becoming Chaz” done last year ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/5 "2012-07-20T19:50:06Z")
I’m having a real hard time seeing what’s misogynistic about that. Being a man in a woman’s body _is_ a defect, as is being a woman in a man’s body. That’s not a value judgment on women qua women, but on gender dysphoria. As for not being able to tolerate talking and gossiping, yeah he’s stereotyping there, but he’s also just describing his own personal preferences. The stereotyping’s not good, but I’m not seeing actual hate. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/6 "2012-07-20T20:09:42Z")
Thanks for the quotes, **Inner Stickler**. I have a hard time working up any outrage about Bono’s comments. He’s not an accomplished speaker; even when he was a toddler his discomfort at being the center of attention was almost palpable. He’s had to deal with some deeply private issues out there on the public stage, and I think overall he’s done so with class and honesty. It would be interesting to hear Jenny’s response to his comments, though. If he were my husband, I’d throw something heavy at him. (Disclaimer: That was a joke, of course, not an actual endorsement of the throwing of heavy objects at one’s spouse.) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/7 "2012-07-20T20:53:40Z")
I don’t think what he said was mysoginistic. He wasn’t saying it’s bad to be a woman. Just that for someone who is actually a man, having a woman’s body is terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/8 "2012-07-20T21:16:18Z")
Seeing the full quote makes it sound not nearly as bad, or bad at all. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/9 "2012-07-20T21:41:06Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I don’t think what he said was mysoginistic. He wasn’t saying it’s bad to be a woman. Just that for someone who is actually a man, having a woman’s body is terrible. The body quote wasn’t really wasn’t really the big deal. It’s understandable (in context) how he could feel that way. His characterization of women as nattering chatterboxes he could no longer stand to listen to because he was now full of testosterone was what seemed off the beam, and a bit dismissive of them for someone who had made a female to male transition. [Along these lines](http://www.baltimoregaylife.com/speaking-out/item/143-all-about-chaz) > [@](#): > > Chaz doesn’t walk away from the documentary without disturbingly turning a few heads in what many would agree are both sexists and misogynist remarks. > > “Jenny and I had to relearn how to be together,” Chaz states in the film. “I never really understood women before, to be honest, but I had a tolerance for women that I don’t have now. …There is something in testosterone that makes talking and gossiping really grating. I’ve stopped talking as much. I’ve noticed that Jen can talk endlessly. …I just kind of zone out. I just don’t care!” Chaz laughs. > > Unthinkingly, Chaz’s buys into the fallacious notion of “biology is destiny,” meaning we are slaves to our genes, and in his case hormones; he, also, is buying into the gender binary of male and female, which would categorically be dismissive of trans males and females. > > “I’ve learned that the differences between men and women are so biological. I think if people realized that, it would be easier. I would be a great relationship counselor. I know the difference that hormones really make.” > > Chaz isn’t realizing that espousing biological essentialist rhetoric, he’s categorizing people by a few fixed characteristics and not allowing for change or variation within God’s human tapestry. And I am by these remarks. > > However, I have to realize as a cisgendered lesbian, this is not my experience, and this is not my story. But rather I am reminded that the documentary “Becoming Chaz” is all about Chaz ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/10 "2012-07-20T21:44:10Z")
He says he can no longer tolerate women. How is that not bad? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/11 "2012-07-20T21:54:43Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > He says he can no longer tolerate women. How is that not bad? He didn’t say that. He said he couldn’t tolerate women jabbering-on. And all men will agree with him there. Oddly enough I have had a similar experience myself. I have recently started having testosterone replacement therapy and am starting to feel like a man again. And I’ve noticed the same stuff - far less tolerance of contentless jabbering that women (on the whole) like (or if they don’t like it, they do it). I recall I was like that before I went down the path that led me to having testosterone deficiency in teh first place. I also feel a billion times better than I have done in the last couple of years. I would be interested if FtMs also have a horrendous time for non-sexual identity reasons before they start getting testosterone. Perhaps they don’t know different so it isn’t as bad. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/12 "2012-07-21T00:01:32Z")
When someone says all men or all women, I know it’s time to stop reading. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/13 "2012-07-23T08:30:36Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > He didn’t say that. > > He said he couldn’t tolerate women jabbering-on. And all men will agree with him there. No, he didn’t, and, no, we don’t. Heck, I’m sure you tolerate women talking to you in a way that you consider boring. To not tolerate it would mean you tell them to shut up. The only positive way to take his comment is that he must be exaggerating, since he still interacts with women, including his partner. (And that is, BTW, the way I take it.) Also, does anyone else find Chaz’s comment thought-provoking? He already had a male brain, and yet he views his testosterone as changing his personality to be more masculine. I hope he eventually becomes smart enough to take the next step, and realize that he doesn’t have to be a slave to his testosterone. That’s the enlightened male of today, and the reason I have a problem with \*\*Cdc’\*\*s comment. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/14 "2012-07-23T09:07:51Z")
I think this might be the best example of recreational outrage ever, I’m not even sure what there is to get mad about. I shudder to think every conversation I have is being poured over by professional outragers, no one could withstand that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/15 "2012-07-23T11:01:42Z")
It is slightly disrespectful, but he probably feels he can get away with it since he was once in the club. Jabbering women is a stereotype, but one based on some truth. I personally don’t like jabbering. But I also don’t have a problem complaining about what men do. Women don’t gossip more than guys do. I believe this is a myth. But they do tend to talk more about mundane details (like what they ate for breakfast…the color of their baby’s poop…how horrible it is they broke their nail…their hopes and wishes and aspirations). Guys can talk a lot too, but not about stuff like this. He could have said it in a more diplomatic, light-hearted way, like “Testosterone has made me realize just how much women like to talk!” But being a person famous for being the child of two celebrities doesn’t come with a silver tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/16 "2012-07-23T11:40:00Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I think this might be the best example of recreational outrage ever, I’m not even sure what there is to get mad about. I shudder to think every conversation I have is being **poured** over by professional outragers, no one could withstand that. I am outraged by this post. It should be “pored”. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/17 "2012-07-23T14:11:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Women don’t gossip more than guys do. I believe this is a myth. But they do tend to talk more about mundane details (like what they ate for breakfast…the color of their baby’s poop…how horrible it is they broke their nail…their hopes and wishes and aspirations). Guys can talk a lot too, but not about stuff like this. No, men jabber on endlessly about sports, someone playing sports, how their kids are doing in sports, etc. They gather in clusters of 3-4 of them and stand there reciting sports facts and figures and obsessing over everything from how good some high school football player looks, to wondering what so-and-so for the Chiefs is doing in retirement. Ironically, not a one of them would actually pry themselves off the couch on the weekend to actually _play_ sports and get active and potentially healthy. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/18 "2012-07-23T15:46:52Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > No, men jabber on endlessly about sports, someone playing sports, how their kids are doing in sports, etc. They gather in clusters of 3-4 of them and stand there reciting sports facts and figures and obsessing over everything from how good some high school football player looks, to wondering what so-and-so for the Chiefs is doing in retirement. Ironically, not a one of them would actually pry themselves off the couch on the weekend to actually _play_ sports and get active and potentially healthy. Apparently I am not a “real” woman since I talk a lot more about sports than I do about fingernails. I had thought that since the smartest people in the world frequent this board, we could have fewer discussions like this one. I guess I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/19 "2012-07-23T15:49:25Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Apparently I am not a “real” woman since I talk a lot more about sports than I do about fingernails. > > I had thought that since the smartest people in the world frequent this board, we could have fewer discussions like this one. I guess I was wrong. Do you believe you are the typical woman though? I don’t enjoy team sports, as a participant or spectator, and I’ll admit that is unusual for a man. I don’t think that “means” anything but the fact remains I’m not typical. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871/20 "2012-07-23T15:56:33Z")
I wonder what “typical” means. I know a lot of women who love sports and a lot of men who don’t. At that point, the notion of “typical” seems fairly meaningless except maybe as a tiny point of interest. People keep on trying to make general sweeping statements or make decisions based on how “most women” act or think. If they would only stop doing that I would not have so much trouble with the notion of “typical”. Maybe. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/odd-opinions-from-chaz-bono-youd-think-hed-be-more-sensitive-and-not-so-dismissive-of-women/628871.md?page=2)