# Oddball baseball rules **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907 "2010-08-11T03:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mattomic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@mattomic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattomic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/1 "2010-08-11T03:13:39Z")
Among all sports, baseball’s truly beloved by stats wonks, trivia geeks and other poindexters for its combination of archaic rules and mountains of data creating all sorts of trivial facts. While perusing Youtube, I saw this vintage news piece from Toronto in what appears to be the mid-80s, with our mustachioed sports correspondent regaling us with impossible-sounding baseball “facts” much to the confusion of fans watching in the old, oddly-shaped [Exhibition Stadium](http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/past/ExhibitionStadium.htm). Video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBgcJDQDZ-o](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBgcJDQDZ-o) Now, while the video’s awesome in its own right - hey, Dave Stieb! - our reporter doesn’t try to explain anything he says, and while some of them seem downright plausible, others sound like someone’s had a bit too much Labatt’s. What do you think, Teeming Bleacher-Creature Millions, which of these facts do you rule Fair and which are Foul? ---
**Author:** ![mattomic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@mattomic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mattomic)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/2 "2010-08-11T03:17:26Z")
I’ll sum up the facts, for the sake of referencing number-by-number: 1. A leadoff hitter can come to the plate in 9 straight innings with his team losing 1-0 2. A pitcher can strike out every batter he sees and still lose 3. A pitcher can give up only walks and home runs and still win 4. A pitcher can win despite being dead for a month 5. A pitcher can win a game and belong to the losing team 6. A pitcher can win a game without throwing a pitch 7. A batter, in the same official at-bat, can take 4 called strikes and not strike out 8. A foul ball can win a ball game 9. The team that wins the most games in the majors might not make the playoffs 10. Most games don’t go 9 innings (?!) (Edit: I’ve figured out 5 of them myself, but this being my question and all, I’ll let you guys pick off the easier ones) ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/3 "2010-08-11T03:24:49Z")
I’ll save a few for others– 3- sure, give up 1 home run, walk 27 guys, and have each one caught stealing 4,5 - with a suspended game that is completed at a later day, after the pitcher dies or is traded 9 I can’t work out, unless its some odd semantics thing eta figured out 1, but ill leave it for someone else ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/4 "2010-08-11T03:31:18Z")
1. I think it means that most games are won either before the 9th inning is complete (the first half) or go into extra innings. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/5 "2010-08-11T03:33:48Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > I’ll save a few for others– > > 3- sure, give up 1 home run, walk 27 guys, and have each one caught stealing > > 4,5 - with a suspended game that is completed at a later day, after the pitcher dies or is traded > > 9 I can’t work out, unless its some odd semantics thing > > eta figured out 1, but ill leave it for someone else I think this will get spitballed to the game room. #1 might be a twist on something that Cecil has discussed before. Although the team might run out of players. #2 Variation of the dropped third strike. #6. Runner picked off base #8 Sac flies can happen on Fly balls #9 ? #10. Nine full innings? home teams win more than away teams? ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/6 "2010-08-11T03:37:32Z")
Searched the archives on #1. [Not exactly the same scenario](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1002/seven-batters-step-up-to-the-plate-the-inning-ends-no-runs-score-how) but I think it explains it ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/7 "2010-08-11T03:46:24Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > 1. The team that wins the most games in the majors might not make the playoffs Happened in 1982. Due to a mid-season strike, the commissioner’s office decided to set up an extra playoff round in which the team in each division with the best pre-strike record would play the team with the best post-strike record\*. The Cincinnati Reds ended up with the best overall record in baseball but were second in their division to different teams pre and post strike, and thus did not make the playoffs. \*I assume there was some system for what happened if the same team led their division in both halves of the season, but I have no idea what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/8 "2010-08-11T03:48:02Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > 1. A pitcher can strike out every batter he sees and still lose All it takes is one droped third strike, then a combination of 3 stolen bases and wild pitch/pass balls. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can give up only walks and home runs and still Many outs can be made on the base paths… But who in their right mind would steal when a pitcher was only giving up home runs and walks? > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can win despite being dead for a month > > 2. A pitcher can win a game and belong to the losing team As **Bootis** said, suspended game starting up later… However, don’t know if this was possible back in the 80’s. (when did the rule for suspended games take effect?) > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can win a game without throwing a pitch Key words were “throwing the **batter** a pitch”. All it takes is a pick off throw when the team scores a run in the next half inning. > [@](#): > > 1. A batter, in the same official at-bat, can take 4 called strikes and not strike out Actual called strikes? This one I don’t know. > [@](#): > > 1. A foul ball can win a ball game Bottom of the 9th, less then two outs, runner on 3rd. A sacrifice fly in foul territory gives the runner the right to attempt to advance. > [@](#): > > 1. The team that wins the most games in the majors might not make the playoffs If they win the most games, they are guaranteed to win their division, so they should make it to the playoffs… So I have no idea. > [@](#): > > 1. Most games don’t go 9 innings (?!) A lot of games go 8 1/2 innings. If the home team is winning after the top of the 9th, there is no bottom half played. Don’t know if this is actually “most” though, depends on the home/away split… but that might be nitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/9 "2010-08-11T03:48:07Z")
1. Either the leadoff hitter is the catcher (who comes to the plate every inning where the other team bats), or the following occurs: a. Leadoff hitter bats in the 1st innning. His team leaves the bases loaded (six men bat). b. First two hitters strike out in 2nd inning. Third batter reaches first base, allowing leadoff hitter to come to the plate. But runner on first is picked off, ending the inning. c. Leadoff hitter bats first in the 3rd inning. Repeat steps a. and b. for the duration of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/10 "2010-08-11T03:49:21Z")
#9 might refer to the 1981 season. Because of a players strike in the middle of the season, the season was split into two halves. The winners of each ‘half’ in each division made the playoffs. The Cincinnati Reds finished the season with a record of 66-42, which was the best in the Major Leagues. Unfortunately, they finished behind the LA Dodgers in the First Half and behind the Houston Astros in the Second Half, so they didn’t make the playoffs. Incidentally, the second best record that year belonged to the St. Louis Cardinals, who also failed to make the playoffs for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/11 "2010-08-11T03:51:38Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > I’ll sum up the facts, for the sake of referencing number-by-number: > 6. A pitcher can win a game without throwing a pitch > > 1. A foul ball can win a ball game > > 2. Most games don’t go 9 innings (?!) > > (Edit: I’ve figured out 5 of them myself, but this being my question and all, I’ll let you guys pick off the easier ones) 1. In the NL or some WS games, the pitcher can be replaced for a pinch hitter by another pitcher, and then hit the winning RBI by batting. 2. A runner can tag up on a caught foul ball. 3. Most games go 8.5 innings if the home team is leading after the top of the 9th. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/12 "2010-08-11T04:03:35Z")
1. Here’s a possible way there could be four called strikes on a batter… If there are less than two outs and a runner on third, batter takes two called strikes. On the third pitch, the runner on third attempts to steal home but touches the ball while it is in the strike zone. A careful reading of [rule 6.05(n)](http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/06_the_batter.pdf) shows the batter may not be out even though the umpire calls “Strike Three”: [QUOTE=MLB Rules] With two out, a runner on third base, and two strikes on the batter, the runner attempts to steal home base on a legal pitch and the ball touches the runner in the batter’s strike zone. The umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the batter is out and the run shall not count; before two are out, the umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the ball is dead, and the run counts. [/quote] Note that the rule specifically states with two out “The umpire shall call ‘strike three’, the batter is out”, but with less than two out “The umpire shall call ‘strike three’”–the rules don’t explicitly state the batter is out. If this is a correct interpretation, the fourth strike is easy: Catcher allows passed ball on strike 4 and batter reaches first. In this case the pitcher is credited with a strikeout, but the batter reaches on an error (no strikeout for batter). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/13 "2010-08-11T04:06:14Z")
Moving to The Game Room from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/14 "2010-08-11T04:17:41Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > 1. Here’s a possible way there could be four called strikes on a batter… > > If there are less than two outs and a runner on third, batter takes two called strikes. On the third pitch, the runner on third attempts to steal home but touches the ball while it is in the strike zone. A careful reading of [rule 6.05(n)](http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/06_the_batter.pdf) shows the batter may not be out even though the umpire calls “Strike Three”: > > [QUOTE=MLB Rules] > With two out, a runner on third base, and two strikes on the batter, the runner attempts to steal home base on a legal pitch and the ball touches the runner in the batter’s strike zone. The umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the batter is out and the run shall not count; before two are out, the umpire shall call “Strike Three,” the ball is dead, and the run counts. Note that the rule specifically states with two out “The umpire shall call ‘strike three’, the batter is out”, but with less than two out “The umpire shall call ‘strike three’”–the rules don’t explicitly state the batter is out. If this is a correct interpretation, the fourth strike is easy: Catcher allows passed ball on strike 4 and batter reaches first. In this case the pitcher is credited with a strikeout, but the batter reaches on an error (no strikeout for batter). [/QUOTE] I’ve spent the last half hour searching the MLB Rules for “strike”, and this is the only thing I was able to find that might apply to this situation. I can’t seem to find any evidence that this scenario has ever actually played out, but I think this is the only way that four strikes could be accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/15 "2010-08-11T04:38:32Z")
That seems like a mix of very strict technical readings and loose colloquial interpretations–whichever way gave a stranger-sounding result. For example, a game that ends after the visitor half of the 9th (with a home victory) has still gone nine innings in the books. The visiting team pitchers will be recorded as having pitched eight, but the home nine, and the game has gone nine. > [@Superhal](#): > > > [@mattomic](#): > > > > 1. A pitcher can win a game without throwing a pitch > > 1. In the NL or some WS games, the pitcher can be replaced for a pinch hitter by another pitcher, and then hit the winning RBI by batting. That would be a colloquial meaning of “winning the game,” if it ever happened. Technically only pitchers of record (not batters of any kind) can be credited with _wins_. Wins are not a batting stat. So I’d say this would refer to a relief pitcher coming into a tie game, two outs and a runner on, ending the inning with a pickoff (thus recording an out and becoming the pitcher of record), his team takes the lead in their next ups, and either the game ends there or another reliever is brought on to finish. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Key words were “throwing the **batter** a pitch”. All it takes is a pick off throw when the team scores a run in the next half inning. All pitches are for the batter. A throw to the bases is not a pitch. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > #9 might refer to the 1981 season. Because of a players strike in the middle of the season, the season was split into two halves. The winners of each ‘half’ in each division made the playoffs. > > The Cincinnati Reds finished the season with a record of 66-42, which was the best in the Major Leagues. Unfortunately, they finished behind the LA Dodgers in the First Half and behind the Houston Astros in the Second Half, so they didn’t make the playoffs. And, aside from the National and American Leagues, many other professional leagues have used or currently use split season schedules. (I don’t like it.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/16 "2010-08-11T04:50:53Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > 1. A leadoff hitter can come to the plate in 9 straight innings with his team losing 1-0 I cannot think of any way this could happen unless the leadoff hitter were to lead off each inning out of turn and the act was not protested by the other team. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can strike out every batter he sees and still lose A pitcher can be credited with a strikeout without the batter actually getting out - dropped third strike - so of course. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can give up only walks and home runs and still win Why not? Pitcher Smith enters the game in the top of the ninth, gives up a walk and a home run, tying the game, and another walk. The baserunner is thrown out stealing; in the bottom of the inning his team scores the winning run. Smith is the winning pitcher. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can win despite being dead for a month If the game is suspended and resumed for some reason, sure. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can win a game and belong to the losing team If the game is suspended and resumed after the pitcher was traded from the winning team to the losing team. > [@](#): > > 1. A pitcher can win a game without throwing a pitch Yes, again; Smith enters in the top of the 9th, two out, men on base, tie game. A man is picked off before Smith throws a pitch, ending the top of the ninth, and Smith’s team wins it in the bottom of the ninth. Smith wins despite never throwing a pitch. > [@](#): > > 1. A batter, in the same official at-bat, can take 4 called strikes and not strike out I don’t buy CJJ’s explanation so I don’t see how this is possible. An argument could be made that “Called strike” means the home plate ump called it a strike but it was negated by something else, such as a base ump calling a balk, but then it’s not really a called strike if it’s taken back. > [@](#): > > 1. A foul ball can win a ball game Foul ball deep to left, man on third, tie game, bottom of the ninth, caught, the runner tags and scores the winning run. > [@](#): > > 1. The team that wins the most games in the majors might not make the playoffs This has happened, s has been pointed out, in 1981. Theoretically it could happen in a normal season if you had enough rainouts and there wasn’t time to make it up. Suppose in 1985 there had been a bizarre series of rainstorms in New York, causing the Mets to miss a huge number of games that happen to have been the ones they would have lost, and so the NL East standards ended up like this because there wasn’t time to make up the games: New York Mets 99-54 St. Louis Cardinals 102-60 St. Louis has more wins, and the most in the majors (as in fact they did in 1985) but are behind New York. They’re a game and a half behind, and have a lower winning percentage, so they lose and New York goes to the playoffs. (There was no wild card back then.) > [@](#): > > 1. Most games don’t go 9 innings (?!) I suppose if you discount the bottom of the ninth this might be true. But even then I am not convinced; many games go extra innings, or end in the bottom of the ninth. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/17 "2010-08-11T04:53:15Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > 1. A pitcher can give up only walks and home runs and still win > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Many outs can be made on the base paths… But who in their right mind would steal when a pitcher was only giving up home runs and walks? It requires only one out on the base paths, a pickoff at first following a walk following a HR. Or, with a careful reading of the morass of 10.17, more convoluted scenarios can be imagined. ---
**Author:** ![President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/President_Johnny_Gentle)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/18 "2010-08-11T05:15:52Z")
> [@mattomic](#): > > 1. A batter, in the same official at-bat, can take 4 called strikes and not strike out I think the key here is the term “official at-bat”, which I believe can be used interchangeably with “plate appearance” for the purpose of this claim. Batter comes to the plate with a runner on and two outs. Batter takes two pitches for strikes. Runner is picked off with an 0-2 count against the batter to end the inning. The batter comes up in the next inning in the same plate appearance, but with a 0-0 count, so can take two more called strikes. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/19 "2010-08-11T05:19:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. Most games don’t go 9 innings (?!) > > I suppose if you discount the bottom of the ninth this might be true. But even then I am not convinced; many games go extra innings, or end in the bottom of the ninth. The key here is “Most games.” As everybody knows, the home team has a 25% win advantage over visiting teams in all major professional sports. This is the only way “most games” (over 50%) can be decided not in 9 “full” innings. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907/20 "2010-08-11T05:21:44Z")
> [@President\_Johnny\_Gentle](#): > > > [@mattomic](#): > > > > 1. A batter, in the same official at-bat, can take 4 called strikes and not strike out > > I think the key here is the term “official at-bat”, which I believe can be used interchangeably with “plate appearance” for the purpose of this claim. > > Batter comes to the plate with a runner on and two outs. Batter takes two pitches for strikes. Runner is picked off with an 0-2 count against the batter to end the inning. > > The batter comes up in the next inning in the same plate appearance, but with a 0-0 count, so can take two more called strikes. If this was true, the batter could take 5 called strikes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddball-baseball-rules/549907.md?page=2)