# Oddly proud to be southern **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199 "2004-11-17T04:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/161 "2004-11-25T00:52:09Z")
Why do we fall into this trap of comparing group suffering? Anguish is experienced on an individual basis and it is all beyond comparison. Is the torment of the Jews in any way lessened by the slaughter of the millions by the Communist regimes? (And I say that as a member of the Left.) **Ellis Dee** , it was kind of you to rethink some of your statements. I fully understand your pride in New England and I spent a lot of my life dreaming of living there. > [@](#): > > But c’mon, I’ve lived in the south, and the midwest, and there are vast stretches of mind-numbingly bare and desolate land in both areas. I was simply pointing out that there are no such desolate areas in New England. Does that make sense? (Also, the condescension was pissing me off.) I’ve been in areas of the South that were boring and even tacky. In the winter parts of it can look a little bare and desolate. But in some states the pines and the palms stay pretty. New England is not dependent on agriculture so much. The area is much smaller. Since the South and Mid-west are much larger, naturally we’re going to have more of those “mind-numbing” spaces. There is not much excitement in a barren field in winter. And sometimes what is boring to one is beautiful to another. (I don’t like deserts, for example, but one of my friends _thrives_ on them.) I am sorry that you felt that we were condescending. I don’t know what it was that we said that made you feel that. In several recent threads – actually, _often_ at SDMB-- Dopers feel comfortable in ridiculing Southerners and in stereotyping them. And it’s not just here. It’s everywhere we go. We are considered yokels. We experience the condescension you were feeling as an almost daily part of our lives. This thread was not about how superior we are. It is about how we are not as bad as everyone tries to make us out to be. (BTW, this view of Southerners cannot be blamed entirely on non-Southerners. It is being perpetuated in our humor and I laugh along with everyone else.) Also, in a tie for my 2nd favorite place in the U.S. is Concord, Mass. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/162 "2004-11-25T02:55:39Z")
**"Oddly proud to be southern"** Proud to be southern? Yeah, yeah, of course, ok, sure I am. Me and my buddy **Zoe** can tell ya’ what’s even better: **It’s Great To Be An Auburn Tiger!** Now ain’t it just that way, Zoe? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/163 "2004-11-25T06:24:51Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > **It’s Great To Be An Auburn Tiger!** > > Now ain’t it just that way, Zoe? Well, certainly this week I would imagine. (I’m moving to Tuscaloosa in January- THANK GOD there’ll be a 9 month respite from _de fooseball_- I’m a FB neutral who graduated from and has now gone to work for U of AL and I’m from a family so rabidly Auburnite [since before the days of Shug Jordan] that my sister actually hired a guy in a moving van to drive around Terry Bowden’s block a few years ago to give him the hint it was time to go- my mother has finally uncomfortably accepted my gayness, but I doubt she’ll ever accept my Crimson-ness.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/164 "2004-11-25T14:14:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > - my mother has finally uncomfortably accepted my gayness, but I doubt she’ll ever accept my Crimson-ness.) Your mother’s position is very understandable. Gay’s ok, it’s just the way things are. But the crimson is a deliberate choice you have made. Shame on you, **Sampiro**! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/165 "2004-11-25T17:50:23Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > American slave owners didn’t buy negro slaves to shoot them between the eyes. If they wanted to get rid of excess cash, they could have just burned it or tossed their gold into the ocean. They purchased them for a specific economic purpose, one that precludes overly harsh treatment as a normal regimen of discipline, because at some point in _that_ course of action, death is preferable to life. I think the white French “Masters” on Haiti learned that to their brief regret. > > And just as obviously, the “spirit” of the negro slave was not “killed;” I think you are being a racists, condescending twit for supposing that the white slave owner could ever completely dominate the negro slave. Ever heard of Harriet Tubman? Underground Railroad? > > By trivializing the American slave experience with inaccurate and melodramatic comparisons to Hitler’s Holocaust, you deny the resilience of the human spirit embodied in every slave escape attempt, whether it was successful or not. > > You deny the bravery and gallantry of the “black regiments” that fought and died in the Civil War. > > In essence, you are denying the essential humanity of African-Americans. > > That is one of the earmarks of :gasp: _Racism._ You’re a fucking dick on a stick. The more you get slapped, the more you seem to like it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/166 "2004-11-25T17:54:29Z")
“Sticks and stones.” I must have hit close to the mark. It’s okay, **Liberal,** you can come out of your Ivory Tower and admit you’re wrong. The NAACP won’t denounce you. ---
**Author:** ![jester5150](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@jester5150](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester5150)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/167 "2004-11-25T21:11:22Z")
Ya know… I’ve been observing here for a couple of hours, and I feel compelled to say a few words… I was born in California, grew up in Alabama, attended college in Europe, spent most of my career in New York City, and recently retired to New Orleans…with several stops in between. Guess what I learned? People are the same all over. You have a certain percentage of nice folks in any given location, and a certain percentage of assholes. I believe the asshole factor is a consistent all over the world…much as it is in this forum. Happy Thanksgiving everyone! PS: my wife’s name is Zoe…wierd ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/168 "2004-11-26T11:23:15Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > The NAACP won’t denounce you. They’ll denounce you, though, for trivializing the living death of slavery and the hopelessness of institutionalized racism. You’re like the guy who thinks he’s doing a man a favor by feeding him turds — you reckon that it’s better than being hungry. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/169 "2004-11-26T16:47:48Z")
Where did I trivialize their deaths? I said comparisons to the Jewish Holocaust were inaccurate, and melodramatic, on the basis that the American institution of slavery was never based upon the premeditated extermination of the negro. If you wish to discuss all the other ways the institution was bad, evil & wrong, I think you’ll quickly get a concensus from just about everyone (including me). As my posting history will show, I have the deepest respect for civil rights, and the overall human struggle for same. My one and only stated position on reparations was that African-Americans don’t deserve reparations _for slavery_; that was a legal (however loathesome) practice. They deserve reparations for geographic, political, educational, professional and financial exclusion from mainstream American culture for over a century since Appomattox. I alluded that I thought the Native American has a more legitimate claim to grievances than the African American; historically, Jews have gotten the dirtiest end of the stick (just about wherever they were) for well over a millenia. And quite honestly, I don’t think any of those positions are cause for abuse. :Obligatory Pit part: :wally ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/170 "2004-11-26T16:59:45Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Where did I trivialize their deaths? I didn’t say you did. It’s like you’re speed reading or something. “The living death of slavery” is a metaphor about slavery, not a statement about death. > [@](#): > > I said comparisons to the Jewish Holocaust were inaccurate, and melodramatic, on the basis that the American institution of slavery was never based upon the premeditated extermination of the negro. But you’re zeroing in on one particular element and saying it does not compare. You’re ignoring that Dio was not comparing that element, but rather the element of scope — that is, both the Jewish Holocaust and American slavery were broad and oppressive in scope, covering a whole group of people based on race. > [@](#): > > If you wish to discuss all the other ways the institution was bad, evil & wrong, I think you’ll quickly get a concensus from just about everyone (including me). Well, we’ll see. > [@](#): > > As my posting history will show, I have the deepest respect for civil rights, and the overall human struggle for same. I’m sure you do. But slavery was not just an abridgment of so-called civil rights; it was an abridgment of humanity. Those people weren’t even recognized as fully human. > [@](#): > > My one and only stated position on reparations was that African-Americans don’t deserve reparations _for slavery_; that was a legal (however loathesome) practice. I agree with your position, but for a different reason. Fuck the law; the practice was unethical. But it is not the responsibility of a son for what his father did unless he was complicit with his father. > [@](#): > > They deserve reparations for geographic, political, educational, professional and financial exclusion from mainstream American culture for over a century since Appomattox. Bullshit. From whom? > [@](#): > > I alluded that I thought the Native American has a more legitimate claim to grievances than the African American; historically, Jews have gotten the dirtiest end of the stick (just about wherever they were) for well over a millenia. Those who always have gotten (and still get) the shit end of the stick are those with the least political clout. It has included people of all races and ethnicities. Poor white people in Appalachia have had it just as tough as anyone. Nobody cares. Nobody bothers. They die young, toothless, penniless, and shriveled. And while they live, it is nothing but struggle from day to day. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/171 "2004-11-27T04:26:50Z")
**jester5150** : People are the same all over. [/quote] And my husband is quite a joker. We’re even. The concept that all people are basically the same is hard for some to realize, I think. They get lost in cultural differences and are blinded to the essentials. Pax ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/172 "2004-11-27T04:30:36Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > New England is not dependent on agriculture so much. The area is much smaller. Since the South and Mid-west are much larger, naturally we’re going to have more of those “mind-numbing” spaces. There is not much excitement in a barren field in winter. > > And sometimes what is boring to one is beautiful to another. (I don’t like deserts, for example, but one of my friends _thrives_ on them.) So true. I can appreciate desert beauty, although it’s more of a “nice to visit” type of appreciation. Just my opinion, but deserts make me think of death, or at very least, lifelessness. Not that deserts aren’t teeming with life, just that much of it is hidden to the naked eye. > [@](#): > > I am sorry that you felt that we were condescending. I don’t know what it was that we said that made you feel that. In several recent threads – actually, _often_ at SDMB-- Dopers feel comfortable in ridiculing Southerners and in stereotyping them. And it’s not just here. It’s everywhere we go. We are considered yokels. We experience the condescension you were feeling as an almost daily part of our lives. Fair enough. What really got my goat was the “Bless your heart” soon after the explanation that “Bless your heart” was a grave insult. As far as beautiful areas of the country are concerned, I’ve been doing some thinking, and I’d probably have to rank New England below some areas in the Northwest. I’ve never been to that area, but everything I’ve seen in movies and pictures from states like Montana and Idaho blows me away. (In particular I’m thinking of that Redford movie with fishing in a river, whatever that was called.) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199/173 "2004-11-27T05:58:08Z")
_A River Runs Through It_! It’s one of my favorites. I swear, I actually went out and bought books on fly fishing after seeing that. I’ve never been west either…and never quite got around to fly fishing. As the song says, “There’s such a lot of world to see…” Pax [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oddly-proud-to-be-southern/275199.md?page=8)