# OED owners: date/origin of "nerd"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357 "2008-11-12T15:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/1 "2008-11-12T15:42:41Z")
Just saw this [article featuring interesting facts about some Dr. Seuss books.](http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/18659) But in it, the writer notes: > [@](#): > > 1. _If I Ran the Zoo,_ published in 1950, is the first recorded instance of the word “nerd”. This sounds highly dubious to me. Anyone out there with an OED that can verify/disprove? ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/2 "2008-11-12T15:44:55Z")
Hijack: This item, however, I believe: > [@](#): > > 1. _Marvin K. Mooney Will You Please Go Now!_ … Oh, and one other tidbit: this book contains the first-ever reference to “crunk”, although its meaning is a bit different than today’s crunk. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/3 "2008-11-12T16:01:34Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Just saw this [article featuring interesting facts about some Dr. Seuss books.](http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/18659) But in it, the writer notes: > > This sounds highly dubious to me. Anyone out there with an OED that can verify/disprove? OED’s first citation is from 1951: > [@OED](#): > > 1951 Newsweek 8 Oct. 28 In Detroit, someone who once would be called a drip or a square is now, regrettably, a nerd. 1957 Sunday Mail (Glasgow) 10 Feb. 11 Nerda square. 1971 Observer 23 May 36/3 Nerds are people who don’t live meaningful lives. 1983 Truck & Bus Transportation July 129/1 When loose-brained nurds crack up the top arrangements of a man o’ my calibre, I got no union t’ thump them nurds with. 1993 Sci. Amer. Apr. 96/1 ‘Nerd’..is movie shorthand for scientists, engineers and assorted technical types who play chess, perhaps, or the violin. 2002 Chicago Tribune 20 Jan. IV. 7/1 Among Silicon Valley nerds, chip engineers..are the geekiest of all. So if “nerd” really is in _If I Ran the Zoo_ then you should give the OED folks a heads-up. -FrL- ETA Here’s the passage from _Zoo_ > [@](#): > > “And then, just to show them, I’ll sail to Ka-Troo/And Bring Back an It-Kutch a Preep and a Proo/A Nerkle a Nerd and a Seersucker, too!” Not clearly (indeed I think clearly not) a use of the same word “nerd” that’s under discussion in this thread. So never mind on giving OED a heads-up. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/4 "2008-11-12T16:09:56Z")
According to my American Heritage Dictionary which I have handy: The word _nerd_, undefined but illustrated, first appeared in 1950 in Dr. Suess’s _If I Ran the Zoo: “And then, just to show them, I’ll sail to Ka-Troo And Bring Back an It-Kutch a Preep and a Proo. A Nerkle a Nerd and a Seersucker, too!”_ (The nerd is a small humanoid creature looking comically angry, like a thin, cross Chester A. Arthur.) _Nerd_ next appears, with a gloss, in the February 10, 1957, issue of the Glasgow, Scotland, _Sunday Mail_ in a regular column entitled “ABC for SQUARES”: “_Nerd–a square, any explanation needed?_” Many of the terms defined in this “ABC” are unmistakable Americanisms, such as _hep_, _ick_, and _jazzy_, as is the gloss “square,” the current meaning of _nerd_. The third appearance of _nerd_ in print is back in the United States in 1970 in _Current Slang: “Nurd [sic], someone with objectionable habits or traits…An uninteresting person, a ‘dud.’”_ Authorities disagree on whether the two nerds–Dr. Seuss’s small creature and the teenage slang term in the _Glasgow Sunday Mail_–are the same word. Some experts claim there is no semantic connection and the identity of the words is fortuitous. Others maintain Dr. Suess is the true originator of _nerd_ and that the word _nerd_ (“comically unpleasant creature”) was picked up by the five- and six-year-olds of 1950 and passed on to their older siblings, who by 1957, as teenagers, has restricted and specified the meaning to the most comically obnoxious creature of their own class, a “square.” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/5 "2008-11-12T16:10:20Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Not clearly (indeed I think clearly not) a use of the same word “nerd” that’s under discussion in this thread. So never mind on giving OED a heads-up. Even if it’s not clearly the same word, it would be useful to be added to OED’s database, partly because the current use of “nerd” may be derived from that Dr Seuss quotation. If I were researching the word for a dictionary, I’d be grateful for that citation. (And I’d want it under the other nonce words, such as “preep” and “proo”, in case they ever come into general usage.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/6 "2008-11-12T16:13:31Z")
What, you never heard that famous crunk song, “closer than my preeps you are to me”? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/7 "2008-11-12T17:08:02Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Even if it’s not clearly the same word, it would be useful to be added to OED’s database, partly because the current use of “nerd” may be derived from that Dr Seuss quotation. If I were researching the word for a dictionary, I’d be grateful for that citation. > > (And I’d want it under the other nonce words, such as “preep” and “proo”, in case they ever come into general usage.) The OED undoubtedly has this. It’s in all modern dictionaries and the Online Etymology Dictionary shows it. > [@](#): > > nerd > 1951, U.S. student slang, probably an alteration of 1940s slang nert “stupid or crazy person,” itself an alteration of nut. The word turns up in a Dr. Seuss book from 1950. That also indicates that both Seuss and others may have picked up on the similar sounding term already in use. You need to understand how far behind the OED is on modern terminology. They’re prepping for a third edition that will be all electronic, but until that finally appears they’re not a good source for recent etymology. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/8 "2008-11-12T17:25:03Z")
I’ve seen some webpages that claim that the word was used in the 1960s or so at my alma mater, Rensselaer, but spelled nurd or knurd (i.e., drunk spelled backward). ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/9 "2008-11-12T17:28:51Z")
[Seuss’s nerd](http://www.ilovedrseuss.com/images/a-seuss-nerd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/10 "2008-11-12T17:30:35Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Even if it’s not clearly the same word, it would be useful to be added to OED’s database, partly because the current use of “nerd” may be derived from that Dr Seuss quotation. If I were researching the word for a dictionary, I’d be grateful for that citation. Except that the _OED_ is ahead of you on that one. It is true that the online version doesn’t include the Dr Seuss reference as its earliest example, no doubt for the simple reason that it isn’t actually an example of the word being used in that sense. But the entry does mention it as one of the possible origins under its discussion of the etymology. [QUOTE=OED] Perhaps \< nerd, a fictional animal in the children’s story If I ran the Zoo (1950) by ‘Dr. Seuss’, depicted as a small, unkempt, humanoid creature with a large head and a comically disapproving expression. Alternatively, sometimes explained as a euphemistic alteration of TURD n. (see e.g. D. L. Gold in Comments on Etymol. (1983) 12 27), although given the predominance of early spellings in -e-, this seems unlikely. The suggestion that the word is back-slang for DRUNK n.2 is also unsupported by the spellings, as is derivation from the name of Mortimer Snerd, a dummy used by the U.S. ventriloquist Edgar Bergen in the 1930s (see e.g. J. E. Lighter Hist. Dict. Amer. Slang (1997) s.v. Nerd). [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/11 "2008-11-12T17:52:49Z")
> [@](#): > > You need to understand how far behind the OED is on modern terminology. They’re prepping for a third edition that will be all electronic, but until that finally appears they’re not a good source for recent etymology. You can say that again. A few years ago, a science-fiction group was doing legwork for first usages of speculative-fiction words for the OED. One of the words on their list, that they wanted a confirmed first usage for, was “hobbit-hole”. Which first appears, of course, on page 1 of _The Hobbit_, and can’t very well have appeared any earlier than that. If the OED is having trouble citing a word coined in a book written by one of their own editors, they’ve got some serious problems. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/12 "2008-11-12T17:59:34Z")
I hope you’ve seen the result, [Brave New Words: The Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction, by Jeff Prucher](http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-Words-Dictionary-Science/dp/0195305671/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226512625&sr=8-1). Hobbit is not an entry, interestingly. For the problems and omissions of the OED, see [Treasure-House of the Language: The Living OED, by Charlotte Brewer](http://www.amazon.com/Treasure-House-Language-Living-Charlotte-Brewer/dp/0300124295/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226512685&sr=1-2). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/13 "2008-11-12T18:05:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I hope you’ve seen the result, [Brave New Words: The Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction, by Jeff Prucher](http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-Words-Dictionary-Science/dp/0195305671/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226512625&sr=8-1). > > Hobbit is not an entry, interestingly. Since Tolkien’s fictional works are fantasy rather than science fiction, they may not be in scope for Prucher’s work. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/14 "2008-11-12T18:06:51Z")
My–probably incorrect–theory has nerd being derived from “Brainerd”. A more obvious term for an over-achieving student being “brain”, this could have been embellished to “brainerd” or “brain nerd” and thus “nerd”. Disney’s _The Absent Minded Professor_ starred Fred MacMurray as “Professor Brainerd” who was obsessed with scientific formulas to the exclusion of his social life. But given that it was released in 1960, that movie could not have been the original inspiration. Another theory has the term being derived from Mortimer Snerd, a doofus character created by ventriloquist Edgar Bergen. Even though Mr. Snerd is nothing like a “brain”, the use of “nerd” in peer culture emphasizes awkwardness and dorkiness, so a connection could still be drawn. ---
**Author:** ![KlondikeGeoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/15 "2008-11-12T18:10:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’ve seen some webpages that claim that the word was used in the 1960s or so at my alma mater, Rensselaer, but spelled nurd or knurd (i.e., drunk spelled backward). ::excuse hijack:: Ah, Dewey, how seldom anybody uses the name “Rensselaer” (or even spells it correctly), or has any clue as to what RPI is. I never attended, but worked there at one time. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/16 "2008-11-12T18:36:05Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Another theory has the term being derived from Mortimer Snerd, a doofus character created by ventriloquist Edgar Bergen. Even though Mr. Snerd is nothing like a “brain”, the use of “nerd” in peer culture emphasizes awkwardness and dorkiness, so a connection could still be drawn. You didn’t read APB’s cite: > [@](#): > > The suggestion that the word is back-slang for DRUNK n.2 is also unsupported by the spellings, as is derivation from the name of Mortimer Snerd, a dummy used by the U.S. ventriloquist Edgar Bergen in the 1930s (see e.g. J. E. Lighter Hist. Dict. Amer. Slang (1997) s.v. Nerd). Brainerd seems more like a back-formation than the originating term. > [@Giles](#): > > Since Tolkien’s fictional works are fantasy rather than science fiction, they may not be in scope for Prucher’s work. Entries include fantastic _n._; fantastic _adj._; and fantasy _n._ Inside science fiction, sf always includes fantasy unless the terms are specifically separated. Hobbit probably wasn’t included, now that I think about it, because its use is basically confined to one writer, while all the terms that were included are used by many and backed up by a multitude of varied cites. A lot of fantasy terms are unique to their originator (or taken from the real world rather than coined) while sf writers tend to borrow language to create what James Gunn first termed a consensus future. (Which also isn’t in the book.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/17 "2008-11-12T19:18:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Entries include fantastic _n._; fantastic _adj._; and fantasy _n._ Better examples might be entries for elf or dwarf or wizard or something. > [@](#): > > Inside science fiction, sf always includes fantasy unless the terms are specifically separated. Okay, I know you’re a science fiction author. I still can’t help asking for a citation for this. It’s just that I’ve never noticed this usage. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/18 "2008-11-12T19:49:36Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Okay, I know you’re a science fiction author. I still can’t help asking for a citation for this. It’s just that I’ve never noticed this usage. You’ve never noticed that something like the [Hugo Awards](http://www.thehugoawards.org/?page_id=5), given at the World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon) by members of the World Science Fiction Society, are award for excellence in the field of science fiction and fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/19 "2008-11-12T19:53:39Z")
The word nerd existed long before Dr. Suez. It was the name of a game. So where he may be the first to use it for a person, it is a borrowed word, not an original. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357/20 "2008-11-12T19:58:46Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > The word nerd existed long before Dr. Suez. It was the name of a game. So where he may be the first to use it for a person, it is a borrowed word, not an original. Was he the guy that engineered the Canal? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oed-owners-date-origin-of-nerd/472357.md?page=2)