# Of 'arse' and 'shite' vs 'ass' and 'shite' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 6, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300 "2004-09-06T03:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/1 "2004-09-06T03:58:09Z")
a) In venues where people are inclined to say “arse”, if someone were to show up at the pub and say “ass”, which of the following would be likely to be folks’ reactions? •Must be from the US. That’s their way of saying “arse”. •Why isn’t he using the euphemism “arse” like the rest of us instead of using the nastier form “ass” like a lowlife guttersnipe? •Why is this fellow discussing his burro? What’s he talking about? b) Same general question except for “shite” as opposed to shit. Is it a euphemism, a regional/linguistic difference in which folks who use “shite” only hear “shit” in American movies, or what? c) How in hell do you pronounce “shite” anyhow? I’ve only ever seen it written. Does it rhyme with “tight” and “kite”? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/2 "2004-09-06T04:09:35Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > a) In venues where people are inclined to say “arse”, if someone were to show up at the pub and say “ass”, which of the following would be likely to be folks’ reactions? > > •Must be from the US. That’s their way of saying “arse”. They’d know from his speech that he wasn’t from the US (unless, of course, he was, in which case they wouldn’t be surprised to hear him say “ass”). But they would regard “ass” meaning arse as an Americanism, and they would wonder why he was using Americanisms when he didn;t appear to be American. > [@AHunter3](#): > > •Why isn’t he using the euphemism “arse” like the rest of us instead of using the nastier form “ass” like a lowlife guttersnipe? “Ass” isn’t considered a nastier form. If anything, I’ve always thought of it as a slightly bowdlerised form. > [@AHunter3](#): > > •Why is this fellow discussing his burro? What’s he talking about? They’d know from the context that he meant arse. There’s also “ass”, meaning an idiot, which comes from “ass”, a donkey. And, of course, there’s “ass”, a donkey, which is not commonly used. There are not many contexts in which the three different meanings of “ass” can be confused. > [@AHunter3](#): > > b) Same general question except for “shite” as opposed to shit. Is it a euphemism, a regional/linguistic difference in which folks who use “shite” only hear “shit” in American movies, or what? I think “shite” is regional. I regard it as a bit stronger than “shit”. > [@AHunter3](#): > > c) How in hell do you pronounce “shite” anyhow? I’ve only ever seen it written. Does it rhyme with “tight” and “kite”? It does. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/3 "2004-09-06T05:49:57Z")
> [@](#): > > In venues where people are inclined to say “arse”, if someone were to show up at the pub and say “ass”, which of the following would be likely to be folks’ reactions? > > •Must be from the US. That’s their way of saying “arse”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t “arse” pronounced – to American ears – “ahss”? If so, then it may just be the difference between “can’t” and “cahn’t”. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/4 "2004-09-06T07:02:18Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t “arse” pronounced – to American ears – “ahss”? If so, then it may just be the difference between “can’t” and “cahn’t”. Depends on whose saying it. In Ireland, Scotland and much of the North of England, the ‘r’ is clearly voiced, but not so in the South of England or Australia. But there’s still a clear distinction between the short ‘a’ in ‘ass’ and the long ‘a’ in ‘arse’. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/5 "2004-09-06T07:05:01Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t “arse” pronounced – to American ears – “ahss”? If so, then it may just be the difference between “can’t” and “cahn’t”. Americans always seem to pronounce the **r** sound very strongly. I say arse, like you suggested - “ahss”, but an American would say “aRRRse” to really work the platysma. Compare that with “ass” which has no r sound, so it would be a fairly similar probnunciation by all - like saying asp without the p. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/6 "2004-09-06T07:25:30Z")
‘shite’ here (Southern England) is a sort of _mock-euphemism_ - or mock-Bowdlerism - something that is jokingly intended to make it sound more polite, but is completely understood to miss the mark. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/7 "2004-09-06T09:59:07Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > Americans always seem to pronounce the **r** sound very strongly. Never been to New England, have you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/8 "2004-09-06T10:06:22Z")
In Ireland “Arse”, “Shite”, and the ever popular “Feck”, are the kind of mild, socially acceptable swear words you can use in front of your Granny and small children. “Ass” would only be used if the person was deliberatley trying to sound American, or was using an Americanism, such as “badass” or “kickass” (although kickarse is sometimes used too). “Shite” is definitely not as strong as “Sh\*t” and rhymes with kite. “Arse” is similar to the “arce” in “parcel”. For further information study Father Jack in the TV show “Father Ted”. This character’s catchphrase was “Drink. Feck. Arse. Girls”. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/9 "2004-09-06T10:16:46Z")
The etymology of “shite” is briefly mentioned [here](http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Shite). It is indeed a regional variation. In my experience, it is the conventional pronunciation in Scotland. The link explains that the modern shit is derived from the Old English _scite_, so perhaps shite is closer to the original the the more widespread shit. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/10 "2004-09-06T10:30:50Z")
Round Yorkshire way, we’d use ass to describe a fool and this would be clear from the context, “Tha’s a silly ass” “Stop acting the ass” However, if someone were messing around and doing stupid stuff, then you’d possibly get “Stop arseing about” In some situations ass and arse are almost interchangeable, but in most they mean differant things altogether. Another Yorkshire term used as an admonishment for someone fooling (arseing)around " Tha daft ha’porth" Dunno how that came about, perhaps from halfpenny which is not a full penny, just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/11 "2004-09-06T11:08:25Z")
There used to be a very good ventriloquist on Brit TV in the 50s, 60s and 70s called Ray Allan whose dummy, Lord Charles, was a sozzled upper-class twit with a polished accent. Lord Charles would often admonish Ray Allan by calling him a “silly ass” - which was pronounced as “aahs”, with a long “a” like “arse” but without the “r”. That always made me laugh hearing it on children’s TV. **Always** “arse” here, please, unless you are not from these parts. And, personally, always “shite” because that’s how my Irish father said it. And see James Joyce’s The Dubliners (and perhaps also Ulysses): “Shite and onions!”. Wouldn’t work without the “e” at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/12 "2004-09-06T12:11:36Z")
**Casdave,** you heard of ‘mardy cow’ or ‘mardy pants’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/13 "2004-09-06T13:11:30Z")
Some writers such as Lynn Abbey for example use “shite” as a “polite” form of cursing in their books, so they don’t have to say the evil “shit” word. She also uses “arse” instead of “ass” at times, and has a filled pages with “frogging” and “frog” in place of “fucking” and “fuck”. This continues on in some anthologies edited by her, but I’m uncertain if it’s a stylistic preference that’s shared or a mandated editorial style. One of her books uses “frog” in place of “fuck” so many times I felt like throwing the book in the trash. Ironically, in that same book she had no trouble with the words “cock” and “cunt” used to describe genitalia… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/14 "2004-09-06T14:21:09Z")
> [@Ponster](#): > > **Casdave,** you heard of ‘mardy cow’ or ‘mardy pants’ ? I have, although I’m not from Yorkshire, but rather, just over the hills, Lancashire. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/15 "2004-09-06T14:48:38Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > …they would wonder why he was using Americanisms when he didn;t appear to be American. They might wonder why he was being such an arse 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/16 "2004-09-06T14:55:22Z")
> [@Ponster](#): > > **Casdave,** you heard of ‘mardy cow’ or ‘mardy pants’ ? When i lived in Yorkshire for a time (about 12 years ago), “mardy” was quite a common term, and was often followed by “cow” or sometimes “bitch.” It was used far more often by women than by men, and was only ever used to refer to women, in my experience. In Australia, we say “arse,” and anyone saying “ass” would probably be assumed to be American. I’ve always considered “shite” to be a slightly less offensive version of “shit,” one that you can use around more sensistive people. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/17 "2004-09-06T15:43:08Z")
I’m happy as the horse’s shite Up came the Bottle of Smoke. ---
**Author:** ![violacrane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c57346/32.png) [@violacrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/violacrane)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/18 "2004-09-06T17:33:16Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] When i lived in Yorkshire for a time (about 12 years ago), “mardy” was quite a common term, and was often followed by “cow” or sometimes “bitch.” It was used far more often by women than by men, and was only ever used to refer to women, in my experience. QUOTE] Living in South Yorkshire now I hear it mostly used of children and pets of either sex. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/19 "2004-09-06T18:07:01Z")
> [@violacrane](#): > > Living in South Yorkshire now I hear it mostly used of children and pets of either sex. Well, there you go! Either usage has changed, or you hang out in different circles than i did. Where are you, by the way? I was in Doncaster. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300/20 "2004-09-07T09:46:27Z")
In Lancashire, we used ‘mardy’ to describe anyone in a foul mood. Male or female. Never really applied it to pets though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-arse-and-shite-vs-ass-and-shite/263300.md?page=2)