# Of course a nine-year-old girl can handle a Uzi, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 27, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631 "2014-08-27T14:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/101 "2014-08-28T02:36:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The person supervising the shooter was suppose to stand to the side the gun is held on and keep it from recoiling. > > And the reason this is done was demonstrated in this unintended training video. Even better, chain the gun down so the barrel remains pointing downrange if control is lost. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/102 "2014-08-28T02:42:23Z")
An uzi is purpose built to kill people. The instructor successfully taught a nine year old how to use an uzi. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/103 "2014-08-28T03:34:12Z")
[The owner of the gun range says she wasn’t too young, because the age limit for that type of weapon at their range is 8](http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/26/us/arizona-girl-fatal-shooting-accident/index.html?hpt=us_c1). According to CNN no charges will be filed…but OSHA is investigating. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/104 "2014-08-28T04:12:45Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > ::: snip :::: > > It took the 8 yr old three rounds before the gun was upright enough to shoot his head. Where did you find that out? Is there a video? Or ??? How do you know it was 3 rounds? I thought she was 9??? ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/105 "2014-08-28T05:07:00Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Where did you find that out? Is there a video? Or ??? How do you know it was 3 rounds? > > I thought she was 9??? I think that may have been referring to [this story](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.U_63KmMkr_R). I’ll take the position that it is unfair to compare these two anecdotal incidents to condemn all 8 and 9 year old children from using Uzis. After all, no one is reporting on the other side of the issue on all the times children use Uzis to defend themselves from criminals. Liberal media never reports those stories. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/106 "2014-08-28T05:16:43Z")
Aren’t they pretty ineffective anyway? I’m pretty sure I saw a number of episodes of a documentary called the A-Team in which it was shown that you can spray all over the place with an Uzi and it will just cause the bad guys to scatter without anyone actually getting hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/107 "2014-08-28T05:18:17Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Huh? Your comments have made no sense. A firearm assigned to adult women by the IDF is considered a ‘girl’s weapon’? Girl’s weapons are like, fairy wands to turn their little brothers into unicorns, or whining to accompany their big brother while he walks to the store with his girlfriend. That sort of thing. **Frank** , I’m 46 and I still get told I can’t do this or that (generally, things I’m perfectly qualified to do) because “you’re a girl!” Some people seem to think the female half of the human species never gets taller than the table. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/108 "2014-08-28T05:24:51Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Where did you find that out? Is there a video? Or ??? How do you know it was 3 rounds? > > I thought she was 9??? Damn, **Gus** , quit salivating so much. It’s unbecoming. On the CBS evening news tonight, a bit more of the video was shown. Firing range guy on little girl’s left, about even with her. Right hand on her back. She depresses trigger in full-auto. Barrel swings up and to left from recoil. Stopped video there. Clearly seen, though, barrel end is swinging up on a trajectory to bring LOF in line with his head. Think the 8 age was a typo on poster’s part. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/109 "2014-08-28T08:44:15Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Frank** , I’m 46 and I still get told I can’t do this or that (generally, things I’m perfectly qualified to do) because “you’re a girl!” > > Some people seem to think the female half of the human species never gets taller than the table. If male soldiers are “our boys”, why can’t female soldiers be “our girls”? The fact of the matter is that when an army is comprised mainly of teenagers and near-teenagers, it’s hard not to think of them as boys and girls rather than as men and women. Hell, I’m 40, and they all look like toddlers to me. Also, they’re on my lawn. As to the Uzi - if a weapon, article of clothing or accessory is carried exclusively by young women, after a while everyone will start thinking of them as “girls’ guns/clothing/accessories”. This has nothing to do with the quality of the weapon and everything to do with ordinary stereotyping. (Note that this only applies to the old, full-sized Uzis. The more compact models are still used by [commandos](http://www.google.co.il/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Fsuop_vipS0U%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dsuop_vipS0U&h=1080&w=1440&tbnid=bHCL0_0q6qjxIM%3A&zoom=1&docid=OAo93oUM_Z58RM&ei=oNn-U9vAEZPiatSEgYAN&tbm=isch&ved=0CCYQMygLMAs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=179&page=1&start=0&ndsp=23)and their ilk and are thus still safely masculine). ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/110 "2014-08-28T10:21:34Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I’m sure the _whole_ purpose of the trip was _just_ to take her to a shooting range in another state most of the way across the country. :rolleyes: > While I personally wouldn’t let a 9yo fire anything more than a pump BB gun the parent were paying for lessons from a so-called professional. > _IF_ I was going to do that, I’d expect a professional would know what he is doing by 1) training her properly & 2) following all safety precautions, including standing in the proper place to prevent her from doing something unsafe with the gun. > I feel confident that he won’t make this mistake again. And I’m certain that is all they will remember of this trip.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/111 "2014-08-28T13:13:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The whole point of the place was to let people play with automatic weapons. To call it “instruction” is a complete misnomer. This is not an “intro to safe shooting” program. It’s pure entertainment. And not remotely appropriate for the child that is now going to be permanently scarred for life. > > The person supervising the shooter was suppose to stand to the side the gun is held on and keep it from recoiling. > > And the reason this is done was demonstrated in this unintended training video. I was going to ask this. There has been a lot of talk of instructing kids to shoot. I got the impression it was more of a “come shoot machine guns!” place like I’ve seen advertised in Vegas. Such as [this](http://machinegunexperience.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/112 "2014-08-28T13:22:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If male soldiers are “our boys”, why can’t female soldiers be “our girls”? The fact of the matter is that when an army is comprised mainly of teenagers and near-teenagers, it’s hard not to think of them as boys and girls rather than as men and women. Hell, I’m 40, and they all look like toddlers to me. Also, they’re on my lawn. > > As to the Uzi - if a weapon, article of clothing or accessory is carried exclusively by young women, after a while everyone will start thinking of them as “girls’ guns/clothing/accessories”. This has nothing to do with the quality of the weapon and everything to do with ordinary stereotyping. > > (Note that this only applies to the old, full-sized Uzis. The more compact models are still used by [commandos](http://www.google.co.il/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Fsuop_vipS0U%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dsuop_vipS0U&h=1080&w=1440&tbnid=bHCL0_0q6qjxIM%3A&zoom=1&docid=OAo93oUM_Z58RM&ei=oNn-U9vAEZPiatSEgYAN&tbm=isch&ved=0CCYQMygLMAs&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=179&page=1&start=0&ndsp=23)and their ilk and are thus still safely masculine). What is funny, is that in the US itself the stereotype is exactly the opposite: use of Uzis by gangsters and secret service types has branded it an excessively “macho” weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/113 "2014-08-28T13:23:36Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Damn, **Gus** , quit salivating so much. It’s unbecoming. On the CBS evening news tonight, a bit more of the video was shown. Firing range guy on little girl’s left, about even with her. Right hand on her back. She depresses trigger in full-auto. Barrel swings up and to left from recoil. Stopped video there. Clearly seen, though, barrel end is swinging up on a trajectory to bring LOF in line with his head. Think the 8 age was a typo on poster’s part. The 8 year old was a reference to an entirely different incident involving a young boy. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/114 "2014-08-28T13:52:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I was going to ask this. There has been a lot of talk of instructing kids to shoot. I got the impression it was more of a “come shoot machine guns!” place like I’ve seen advertised in Vegas. Such as [this](http://machinegunexperience.com/). From that site’s FAQ about age restrictions: > [@](#): > > Participants 21 and older may operate all firearms at The Vegas Machine Gun Experience. > > Participants 18-20 may operate machine guns, sub-machine guns, rifles and shotguns. Current law prohibits us from handing a handgun to anyone under 21 years of age. Only a supervising parent or guardian can hand a handgun to a child under the age of 21. Under such conditions, the participant CAN operate a handgun. > > Participants under 18 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian, who remains responsible for the minor’s actions and safety, while at our facility. Minors may operate all long arms, including machine guns. Range safety officers exercise discretion to determine what firearms a minor is permitted to operate. If permitted by a monitoring range safety officer, a supervising parent or guardian can hand a handgun to a child. Under such conditions, the minor CAN operate a handgun. > > Infants or toddlers are not permitted in the shooting area; they must remain supervised in the retail areas of our facility. > > - See more at: [http://machinegunexperience.com/faq/#sthash.xEENL1RR.dpuf](http://machinegunexperience.com/faq/#sthash.xEENL1RR.dpuf) They clearly say that the parent or guardian is to be the person who hands the weapon to the youth/minor. That move right there gives the range some legal protection. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/115 "2014-08-28T13:56:37Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > From that site’s FAQ about age restrictions: > > They clearly say that the parent or guardian is to be the person who hands the weapon to the youth/minor. That move right there gives the range some legal protection. Different state different laws. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/116 "2014-08-28T14:12:15Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > From that site’s FAQ about age restrictions: > > They clearly say that the parent or guardian is to be the person who hands the weapon to the youth/minor. That move right there gives the range some legal protection. Only if it’s a handgun: " If permitted by a monitoring range safety officer, a supervising parent or guardian can hand a **handgun** to a child. Under such conditions, the minor CAN operate a **handgun.**" Given that they specifically call out that parents have to hand a handgun to a child, it’s reasonable to assume that all other guns can go directly from the instructor to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/117 "2014-08-28T14:37:11Z")
Yeah. Back to the incident, the instructor (Charles Vacca) needed to be close enough to quickly reach out and control the Uzi. That poor girl will have to suffer while she recovers because of Vacca’s incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/118 "2014-08-28T14:45:27Z")
I just watched the video. Vacca was plenty close enough to have controlled the situation but his left hand was in the wrong place - below the girl’s hands as if to help her hold up the weapon instead of back a bit and at the ready, ready to control the usual muzzle drift. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/119 "2014-08-28T14:56:19Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > I just watched the video. Vacca was plenty close enough to have controlled the situation but his left hand was in the wrong place - below the girl’s hands as if to help her hold up the weapon instead of back a bit and at the ready, ready to control the usual muzzle drift. More: Vacca’s right hand was on the girl’s lower back, and IME that didn’t contribute to the problem. In fact I think it helped Vacca be closer to the girl. It’s his left hand that’s key here, again IME and from what I could see from the Huffington Post video. > **[Raw Video Shows Girl Fire Uzi Moments Before Accidentally Shooting Instructor](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charles-vacca-shooting-instructor_n_5721644)** > > Raw Video Shows Girl Fire Uzi Moments Before Accidentally Shooting Instructor ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631/120 "2014-08-28T15:22:10Z")
**Bullitt** , the incompetence began and ended when he put an Uzi in the hands of a 9 year old girl. There is no “right” way to go about it, period. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-a-nine-year-old-girl-can-handle-a-uzi-right/696631.md?page=7)