# Of course Camille Cosby stayed... Is there any surprise there? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616 "2015-11-15T03:48:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/21 "2015-11-15T13:51:46Z")
I guess there’s no chance that none of these women just took their marriage vows very seriously? I don’t respect that position, mind you. Marriage should never reduce someone to a doormat. But love makes people do much worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/22 "2015-11-15T13:57:13Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Personally, I’m a big believer in Karma. Were I his wife I’d have a hard time NOT connecting the death of my innocent son, shot on a roadside, with the vile acts my husband had perpetrated on numerous innocent women, using his power and connections. So Karma harms multiple innocent people to get even with one guilty person? Are you sure you don’t have Karma mixed up with God? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/23 "2015-11-15T14:12:50Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Knowing Aaron Sorkin, the joke probably predated TWW. > > Bastard stole a joke from _1776_ for that Steve Jobs film, which then gets into the trailer. Does he really think there’s not a crossover audience of his own audience and _1776_ fans? Geeze, usually he only ganks from himself. Pretty sure it was originally about the Trumans. I xertainly heard it pre Clinton presidency. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/24 "2015-11-15T14:29:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t get the joke-- Hillary didn’t go to HS in Arkansas! Round these here parts, we call that third grade. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/25 "2015-11-15T14:36:28Z")
We’ve been through this before, and referring to those other celebrity wives involved in scandal fails because it brings up **nearwildheaven** ’s correct observation, that mere philandering is different from serial rape, and **cochrane** ’s that at least some of them would stand in quite good stead career and respectwise without the men. OTOH, it’s easy for many people to say _“oh, why doesn’t she just dump him on the spot, what a mercenary”_; they don’t pause to think that there may be _just as many people_ who in the opposite case would be saying _“oh, she could not wait to throw him under the bus fast enough, she’s looking out for #1”_ – and many of the first group will just shake their heads and refuse to grant the second group validity in their counter opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/26 "2015-11-15T16:27:40Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Knowing Aaron Sorkin, the joke probably predated TWW. > > Bastard stole a joke from _1776_ for that Steve Jobs film, which then gets into the trailer. Does he really think there’s not a crossover audience of his own audience and _1776_ fans? Geeze, usually he only ganks from himself. So why do you assume that the people who wrote _1776_ originated the joke? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/27 "2015-11-15T16:49:09Z")
Also note that the Steve Jobs film (and the book upon which it’s based) is about real people. How do you know that this was not said by one of them in reality? (Note that I have not read the book by Walter Isaacson.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/28 "2015-11-15T17:35:29Z")
I’m trying to understand why this was worth its own thread on a “Fighting Ignorance” message board. Did someone come out taking a strong stand\* in favor of a contrary position? (can’t grasp what that would be though… “Cosby and Clinton’s wives secretly divorced them”?) - Maybe someone did. Can you give us a link? ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/29 "2015-11-15T17:51:00Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Knowing Aaron Sorkin, the joke probably predated TWW. > > Bastard stole a joke from _1776_ for that Steve Jobs film, which then gets into the trailer. Does he really think there’s not a crossover audience of his own audience and _1776_ fans? Geeze, usually he only ganks from himself. Wait, the musical or the book? And who knew KITT could sing? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/30 "2015-11-15T18:22:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Also note that the Steve Jobs film (and the book upon which it’s based) is about real people. How do you know that this was not said by one of them in reality? (Note that I have not read the book by Walter Isaacson.) I have no dog in this hunt, but will say that Sorkin has gone on record saying he had no interest in representing actual happenings and quotes, per se, and he is also a massive Broadway fan. As for the OP, yes, complicity comes in many shapes and sizes. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/31 "2015-11-15T19:15:58Z")
As for genuine infidelity, more than one woman has told me that she could not divorce her husband for that because she had done it herself. Nobody ever knows what goes on in a marriage except for the people in it. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/32 "2015-11-15T19:26:32Z")
I think we also need to separate sex from love. They are not at all equal. However, everything also points to Cosby being a rapist. Did his wife know? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/33 "2015-11-15T20:24:02Z")
Hijack continued because it’s much more interesting than the OP: > [@sparky\_1](#): > > Wait, the musical or the book? The musical. Although if it’s in the McCollough book (which I doubt, but possible), then maybe it’s an actual exchange between Jefferson and Adams–Peter Stone liberally used letters and documents for his script. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So why do you assume that the people who wrote _1776_ originated the joke? If Peter Stone (who wrote the book and lyrics for _1776_) copied the exchange from somewhere, it’s probably historic. I don’t see anyone accusing him of re-using the dialogue. This is a well-regarded play/film that any history wonk or lover of witty dialogue would likely know it. Since Sorkin’s both, I’m calling a _j’accuse_ on him. 🙂 BTW, I should mention the actual lines in question. In _1776_, it’s from the scene where Adams confronts Jefferson on not having completed even a first draft of the Declaration of Independence: > [@](#): > > **Adams:** Do you mean to tell me that it is not yet finished? > > **Jefferson:** No, sir. I mean to say that it is not yet begun. > > **Adams:** Good God! A whole week! The entire earth was created in a week! > > **Jefferson:** Someday, you must tell me how you did it. The last two lines are the ones Sorkin paraphrased (slightly). If anyone else used them before, I’m not finding it–and I’m far from the first person who’s spotted that the exchange in the trailer is practically word-for-word quote from _1776_. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Also note that the Steve Jobs film (and the book upon which it’s based) is about real people. How do you know that this was not said by one of them in reality? (Note that I have not read the book by Walter Isaacson.) So basically, in this scenario, Sorkin would be quoting Isaacson quoting Andy Hertzfeld quoting _1776_ quoting Thomas Jefferson. It’s turtles all the way down! While pedeconferencing, no doubt. 😃 Honestly, if this were a real exchange told to Walter Isaacson, as a screenwriter Sorkin still should’ve avoided using it, since he’d recognize the quote. But I don’t think it is. Everyone quoting the lines on the web credits Sorkin with the witty dialogue, not Isaacson or Hertzfeld. Look, I like Sorkin’s work too, _Sports Night_ and TWW being two of my favorite shows. But the guy reuses lines, plots, character archetypes and even names as if he’s some kind of Word Conservationist and they’re being rationed. He’s also almost physically incapable of creating characters who don’t speak just like Sorkin characters. Which is great if you love Sorkin characters, but not so much in a biographical film. To quote the man (as he’s done himself): Words mean things. Or, to quote him quoting someone else (in this case, Mike Nichols): “Art isn’t about what happened.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/34 "2015-11-15T22:38:07Z")
> [@JRUSA1](#): > > Of course Bill Cosby Wife behavior and his constant Cheater through out their 51 years Marriage. … That makes a lot of damn sense. Pardon me for not reading the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616/35 "2015-11-26T19:12:57Z")
it’s important to remember that no person can be reducible to just one thing, that’s just us trying to simplify everything and everyone into a good/bad format that relieves us of the burden of thinking. The best of us have bad qualities that might horrify the crowd and the worst of us have committed acts of generosity and selflessness that the crowd may never suspect. Crimes and cruelties should be punished and condemned, certainly, but it is possible that people marry other people for their virtues, not for money in spite of their faults. We can condemn individuals for their bad acts without pretending that no one, ever, had a good reason to love them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-camille-cosby-stayed-is-there-any-surprise-there/737616.md?page=1)